NSS - migrants displace workers.

[doodab]

However people are willing to do the work but as my Friend who drives lorries said "why should I work for £7 an hour when I will be on less than I will be on benefits and my family will suffer". If wages don't rise or benefits fall you will not get people off benefits.

That I think it the crux of the matter. Something like half of benefits claimants are people with jobs who are still receiving benefits or tax credits because they are so poorly remunerated. This is a result of successive governments trying to sell Britain as a low wage entry point to the EU for overseas investors rather than investing in education & particularly in turning British R&D into British manufacturing. We invented OLED but there isn't a single British factory making OLED displays. While there are lots of British manufacturing success stories there are also towns in the Midlands where the bulk of employers are foreign owned factories using a temporary labour force on little more than minimum wage to assemble foreign produced components into things we buy. Low wage, low skill jobs, by design.

[doodab]

when you didn't need a £5k desoldering station to change a chip.

I think the supercharged hair dryers we used were still quite expensive.

[vetran]

Does the UK not have cabotage legislation on truckers? It's permitted and even enabled by the EU to stop cheapo international drivers taking domestic business from locals.



True, but is the answer to protect the weak, or to strengthen them? In reality it will need to be some kind of compromise, but people need to be better prepared to adapt and that starts with big changes to the way people at the lower end of the jobs market are edjumakated.

I'm sure it does however it doesn't seem to use it. The pay offered seems dire and the lorries all seem to be foreign on the roads. He did get a job but its in a niche area with more technical skills than just driving.

So we write off anyone from the last 20 years until we can educate the populace to compete?

[vetran]

That I think it the crux of the matter. Something like half of benefits claimants are people with jobs who are still receiving benefits or tax credits because they are so poorly remunerated. This is a result of successive governments trying to sell Britain as a low wage entry point to the EU for overseas investors rather than investing in education & particularly in turning British R&D into British manufacturing. We invented OLED but there isn't a single British factory making OLED displays. While there are lots of British manufacturing success stories there are also towns in the Midlands where the bulk of employers are foreign owned factories using a temporary labour force on little more than minimum wage to assemble foreign produced components into things we buy. Low wage, low skill jobs, by design.

agree completely.

[Mich the Tester]

I'm sure it does however it doesn't seem to use it. The pay offered seems dire and the lorries all seem to be foreign on the roads. He did get a job but its in a niche area with more technical skills than just driving.

So he adapted!

[vetran]

So he adapted!

yes but he struggled for months to get anything which created massive stress and heartache. He ended up with the Bailiffs round (not pleasant) and had little help from any government organisation.

He sort of fell into the niche, he could have been less lucky or just a few years older.

If that is what everyone who isn't as intelligent as SAS thinks he is, has to go through so Starbucks etc can make an extra few quid in its tax haven I'm not sure I think its worthwhile.

[petergriffin]

and I think the free movement for new EU countries has been done too quickly for many people to adapt.

I totally agree, but this in not the EU fault, but governments like tony Blair's, that implemented the transition badly. I still remember 2004 tv debates: "Immigrants, let them all in or kick them all out?".

They decided to let them all in despite the government had 8 years time to manage the transition. And that's why you have the UKIP all over the place.

[Mich the Tester]

yes but he struggled for months to get anything which created massive stress and heartache. He ended up with the Bailiffs round (not pleasant) and had little help from any government organisation.

He sort of fell into the niche, he could have been less lucky or just a few years older.

If that is what everyone who isn't as intelligent as SAS thinks he is, has to go through so Starbucks etc can make an extra few quid in its tax haven I'm not sure I think its worthwhile.

So there's the problem; adult education and training needs to be available to all. We can't go on making cuts in student finance or mature student finance and just hope that people find their own way. What your mate needed wasn't benefits or protection against cheaper truck drivers from abroad but the finance and help to get specialist training to do the jobs others can't do. Again, the problem isn't so much immigration policy as education policy that's failing to prepare the workforce for competition and keep them prepared and responsive as the market changes. I know there are training schemes to get the long term unemployed into work; that's ridiculous, they should have had access to training schemes from the first day of unemployment and then they might no have become long term unemployed.

[vetran]

So there's the problem; adult education and training needs to be available to all. We can't go on making cuts in student finance or mature student finance and just hope that people find their own way. What your mate needed wasn't benefits or protection against cheaper truck drivers from abroad but the finance and help to get specialist training to do the jobs others can't do. Again, the problem isn't so much immigration policy as education policy that's failing to prepare the workforce for competition and keep them prepared and responsive as the market changes. I know there are training schemes to get the long term unemployed into work; that's ridiculous, they should have had access to training schemes from the first day of unemployment and then they might no have become long term unemployed.

I agree with you on the training but the downward pressure on wages will slowly drive people without the will or nouse to retrain into these situations and we will spend a fortune retraining them and then subsidising them because they can't live on an artificially low wage.

Just limit immigration to high quality applicants and the issues will decrease, we can get the majority of our unemployed into work, reset the benefits to subsistence level and remove less pleasant visitors that commit crime here (we have plenty of criminals already without importing more).

[Mich the Tester]

I agree with you on the training but the downward pressure on wages will slowly drive people without the will or nouse to retrain into these situations and we will spend a fortune retraining them and then subsidising them because they can't live on an artificially low wage.

Just limit immigration to high quality applicants and the issues will decrease, we can get the majority of our unemployed into work, reset the benefits to subsistence level and remove less pleasant visitors that commit crime here (we have plenty of criminals already without importing more).

What's stopping the UK deporting criminals?