What exactly are the UKIP policies?

[darmstadt]

Don't confuse the BNP for the UKIP. The BNP are fascists. However disgusting and regrettable they are, they culturally miles beyond the UKIP and their supporters. Fascism has its own cultural background that goes back to radical socialism in Italy and France.

UKIP is nothing but the ultra-right wing of the Tories. Their dream is to be reabsorbed in the Conservative party in a position of strength, and I actually see that happening in the end.

I'm not confusing them - I'm a UKIP member so I should know if anyone.

Actually I'm more than a UKIP member now, I'm a local election candidate in an upcoming seat. Vote KentPhilip!
lol

Nope - UKIP has policies that are attracting almost as many former Labour voters from the north (whose jobs have been pinched by immigrants), as former tories in the south. On the UKIP online forum there are many members who say they will leave UKIP if they do a merger with the Tories.

Just out of interest, can anyone defend this decision made by the UKIP:

UKIP back racist BNP in quest for £335,000 European funding | Political Scrapbook

Also their membership of the EFD: Home. The only reason I'm asking about this is because many of the other member parties are well known to be extremely right wing, verging upon fascist parties. Admittedly the Tory EU party and Labour also have some strange bedfellows but not as strange as these...

[Zero Liability]

As of 31 December 2012, there are approximately 417,000 full-time equivalent (451,000 headcount) civil servants in the Home Civil Service. **** me, that's a lot and doesn't even include NHS, police or armed forces...But then again, like your figures, how many of them actually make decisions and how many are just your average pen pusher?

And that budget, 94% of the total EUR 135.6 billion of the EU 2012 budget was dedicated to beneficiaries across Europe such as researchers, students, small and medium enterprises, towns and regions and NGOs. They don't spend it on themselves you know? In fact, you're more than likely a beneficiary without knowing it...

Indeed, the British government is itself very profligate and wasteful. So why do we need to add onto this a layer of Eurocrats? As for the "benefits" provided by the EU, the UK is a net contributor.

If you like the EU, you can certainly treat it as a charity and send it over your money and try and convince others to do the same, rather than supporting it being done by force as it is now.

And as an FYI, my feelings to the IMF, WTO etc. are not any warmer. They're all cut of the same cloth.

It has nothing to do with the parties though. It all comes down to the fact that people vote for whoever promises to give them 'free' tulip.
The problem is with the population at large who think that being part of a mob means that they can legitimately take what isn't theirs. Of course when everyone takes what isn't theirs from everyone else, then everyone in general is worse off. People don't seem to realise this and think that their 'free' tulip is really free.

Wanting a minimal government party is pointless because they'd never win. What you really want is a minimal government population. The parties and their policies are a red herring.

Very much agreed. The parties cater, by and large, to what they think the electorate will tolerate.

[xoggoth]

Just out of interest, can anyone defend this decision made by the UKIP:

I'll defend it.

There is a huge range of opinions on every issue in a democracy, it is a normal distribution. If one end of that distribution is to be excluded but not the other, if the far-right groups are allowed no say but far leftist groups like the no borders supporters are then you no longer have a true democracy where the opinions of all citizens count equally, you have an undemocratically selected sub-electorate that is slewed to the left.

It would be a very different situation if the BNP looked like winning an election. In that case I would agree that their exclusion of some based on ethnic grounds is incompatible with democracy and they should be barred. Until that utterly improbable event happens they should have the same right to exert influence as anyone else.

I would add that in some cases, according to the facts from reputable, mainly government, sources, the opinions of the far right are sometimes closer to the truth.

[darmstadt]

I'll defend it.


It would be a very different situation if the BNP looked like winning an election. In that case I would agree that their exclusion of some based on ethnic grounds is incompatible with democracy and they should be barred. Until that utterly improbable event happens they should have the same right to exert influence as anyone else.

Fair enough, they have won an election or 2, local council elections and European elections.

In the 2009 European elections, the BNP won two seats. Andrew Brons was elected in the Yorkshire and the Humber with 9.8% of the vote and Nick Griffin in North West England, with 8% of the vote. Nationally, the BNP received 6.26%.

The BNP's first electoral success came in 1993, when Derek Beackon was returned as a councillor in Millwall, London. He lost his seat in elections the following year. The next BNP success in local elections was not until the 2002 local elections, when three BNP candidates gained seats on Burnley council.

[xoggoth]

By "winning an election" I meant being elected as government not a tiny handful of MEPs, MPs or councillors.

[xoggoth]

Consider also that some views of the far right are actually ones many could agree with. They are nationalist and, although there may be some overlap, that generally has nothing to do with being Nazi or white supremacist.

Most modern far-right parties do not believe in interfering in the affairs of other nations, they believe that they too should be free to pursue their own national goals. They would never have got us involved in Iraq or Afghanistan.

[darmstadt]

By "winning an election" I meant being elected as government not a tiny handful of MEPs, MPs or councillors.

Well I think we all know that's never going to happen

[darmstadt]

Actually I'm more than a UKIP member now, I'm a local election candidate in an upcoming seat. Vote KentPhilip!
lol

UKIP election results for this year so far:

SALFORD Swinton South
BLOWER Neil (Labour) 661 (45.1%)
BROOMHEAD Anne (Conservative) 298 (20.3%)
WAKEFIELD Robert (UKIP) 215 (14.7%)
O'NEILL Joe (Green) 196 (13.4%)
WHITELEGG Paul A (English Democrats) 54 (3.7%)
CULLEN Steve (TUSC) 43 (2.9%)

Tonbridge & Malling - Borough Green, By-Election Result:
IND - 692
CON - 588
UKIP - 349
LAB - 84
GREEN - 68

Haverhill Town Council: Haverhill East
UKIP 630
Lab 229
LD 107

UKIP 529 (54.%)
Lab 240 (24.5%)
Con 157 (16.0%)
LD 54 (5.5%)

TRAFFORD MBC, BROADHEATH
January 16, 2014
Lab 1377 (44.6; -1.7)
Con 1258 (40.8; +1.9)
UKIP 234 (7.6; +1.4)
Lib Dems 150 (4.9; +0.7)
Green 67 (2.2; -2.1)

Hertford Town Council
22nd January 2014
Lab 337
L Dem 319
UKIP 318

Southend - West Leigh
23rd January 2014
CON 743 37.2% -12.5%
LDm 688 34.4% 3.9%
UKIP 418 20.9% 20.9%
LAB 149 7.5% -1.7%

North Lanarkshire, Motherwell North
23rd January 2014
LAB 1719
SNP 520
CON 173
UKIP 107

Cowdenbeath By-Election
23rd January 2014
Labour 11,192 (55.78%)
SNP 5,704 (28.43%)
Conservative 1893 (9.44%)
UKIP 610 (Denise Baykal) (3.04%)
Liberal Democrats 425 (2.12%)
VFR 187 (0.93%)
SDA 51 (0.25%)

[xoggoth]

Well I think we all know that's never going to happen

Erm. That is actually what I said when I referred to an "utterly improbable event". The only thing that could conceivably change that (the Front Nationale are a major party in France after all) is if legitimate concerns that ordinary people have go on being ignored and it is people like you who make that more likely.

[darmstadt]

By "winning an election" I meant being elected as government not a tiny handful of MEPs, MPs or councillors.

Erm. That is actually what I said when I referred to an "utterly improbable event". The only thing that could conceivably change that (the Front Nationale are a major party in France after all) is if legitimate concerns that ordinary people have go on being ignored and it is people like you who make that more likely.

I know that but these funds that are allocated to parties like the BNP don't just allow them to get voted into what you think of as insignificant political posts but they allow them to fund their radical views at a local level causing discontent within a community, in fact via these insignificant elections it gives them greater influence.

If you looked at the list that I provided then you'll notice that quite a few of those parties are quite powerful in their home countries, even today the leader of the Hungarian Joppik party gave a speech in London today, who also receive these funds are in fact the 3rd largest party in Hungary. By condoning the use of these funds, then parties like the UKIP are condoning extreme right-wing views.