Coming over here, taking our jobs...

[Mich the Tester]

Also many people aren't driven like us, they work to pay the bills so advancement may not appeal.

That's not really an option in the current economic climate.

[SpontaneousOrder]

Increasing minimum wage is the answer to this - it should provide decent standard of living (at least outside London)

So £1000 per hour then?

[original PM]

But sometimes people who speak no English get jobs at tiny ethnic businesses where the same comment can be made of the owners - barely profitable ethnic shops, restaurants in areas that already have too many and that just take passing business from the existing ones. Try a Google of fast food shops and Tower Hamlets. Another major area for migrants is data processing or leafleting for marketing companies, those people who annoy you with cold calling and leaflets. Or car washing, that "you want car wash?" that is so annoying every time you go the supermarket in the South East and which just takes profits from your local garage. Not all employment is useful to the UK economy, let alone the existing population and especially when low wages have to be supplemented by welfare to support a family.

Another relevant factor, especially in the wake of the Duggan enquiry, is that it is not the white British who are being pushed out. Unemployment for younger members of ethnic minorities, especially black youths, is now up to a massive 37% and rising, compared to a steady 21% for the UK as a whole. It is everyone's interests to get them back into our society/economy if we want to avoid more gang crime and riots. Some of you lefty twits really ought to read your Guardian.

Rising unemployment for UK's ethnic minorities: who's affected? | News | theguardian.com

Only because being a member of a gang, drug dealer, pimp , car thief etc are not classed as being employed.

Besides KFC are always hiring surely that is a dream job

[yasockie]

I've been living and working here for 7 years or so.
I am completely eligible to get a citizenship now (provided I was bothered to go through the hassle, alas I am not)
Would anyone's perception change if I suddenly became a citizen?
If if did, they're idiots.
I have many friends in the UK from very diverse backgrounds - a UK family for many generations now, but you wouldn't know due to their ethnicity. On the other end of the spectrum, I've lived near Rochdale, where unemployments seems to hover at around 80% and I came across so lowlife local scum milking the benefits system.

In the day and age of globalisation, easy air travel etc, such nationalism is a bit passe and so is any generalisation and stereotyping....

[AtW]

So £1000 per hour then?

£10 per hour might make it liveable (if tax free).

[vetran]

Why are you picking arbitrary figures out of the air? Why are English people only willing to work for £8 but immigrants for £7? Loads of people in the UK work for minimum wage.

its an example, which of course fails to illustrate when you attack the figures rather than the illustration. the point was that people are undercut by quality & price at the low end.

You could also compare a brit on minimum wage and an immigrant on minimum wage but the immigrant works 2 hours for the same sum.

[Mich the Tester]

You could also compare a brit on minimum wage and an immigrant on minimum wage but the immigrant works 2 hours for the same sum.

Not if he's working in the UK under the same minimum wage laws as the British worker. Productivity might be a different issue but I don't knw if that's been measured.

[vetran]

I've been living and working here for 7 years or so.
I am completely eligible to get a citizenship now (provided I was bothered to go through the hassle, alas I am not)
Would anyone's perception change if I suddenly became a citizen?
If if did, they're idiots.

If you went home what effect would it have on UK PLC? What benefits do you bring over home grown talent?

We have various skill levels and abilities in this country, what we are doing is importing people with higher skill levels that are undercutting the bottom end and even the middle.

Individually the vast majority of those imported are very nice however together the effect they have on our workforce is to drive down wages and put the less competent, fortunate or driven out of work.

As we have to subsidise those out of work or on poor wages with benefits it drags everyone else down and just makes large companies that pay little UK tax richer.

The question is:- Do we use large scale immigration to drive wages down and ignore its hidden costs or do we use selective and managed immigration to increase the GDP per head?

[vetran]

Not if he's working in the UK under the same minimum wage laws as the British worker. Productivity might be a different issue but I don't knw if that's been measured.

plenty of statements from UK employers comment on the work ethic and immigrant workers staying behind to finish work.

minimum wage only covers the hours you are forced to work.

Now if you paid me £100K (four times the average wage in my home country) to wait tables I would be diligent and willing to stay behind!

[Mich the Tester]

If you went home what effect would it have on UK PLC? What benefits do you bring over home grown talent?

We have various skill levels and abilities in this country, what we are doing is importing people with higher skill levels that are undercutting the bottom end and even the middle.

Individually the vast majority of those imported are very nice however together the effect they have on our workforce is to drive down wages and put the less competent, fortunate or driven out of work.

As we have to subsidise those out of work or on poor wages with benefits it drags everyone else down and just makes large companies that pay little UK tax richer.

The question is:- Do we use large scale immigration to drive wages down and ignore its hidden costs or do we use selective and managed immigration to increase the GDP per head?

Why should people who are not 'driven' be protected at the expense of those that are?