Dominoes - Pay a little more

[DodgyAgent]

This news just in - Min Wage unlikely to go away - the USA even beat us to it.

What is your view on the Dominos geezer wanting to ship in workers from outside the EU? (rather than another neocon idealist lecture you get points for answering the point which was the original topic of the thread)

Should

a)The government do what he asks or
b) Not

My view is that he should pay what the market says he should pay and not be allowed to go outside the EU. As for your comments about interns, I would rather employ someone who has worked unpaid as an intern than someone who has simply sat at home drawing benefits. Whilst I do not like the idea of these people being exploited I am not like many of you going to categorise them as victims. If it was me and there were no paid jobs on the market for what I wanted to do (anyone could go and get a paid job picking fruit or packing flowers) then I would look upon an internship as training, just as you might if you decided to learn a new skill whilst being on the bench.
Unfortunately the wailings from the left simply have the effect of removing opportunities.

[Mich the Tester]

This news just in - Min Wage unlikely to go away - the USA even beat us to it.

What is your view on the Dominos geezer wanting to ship in workers from outside the EU? (rather than another neocon idealist lecture you get points for answering the point which was the original topic of the thread)

Should

a)The government do what he asks or
b) Not

Continuing the simplistic binary 'lefty and righty' theme, according to the 'righties', the government should allow a free market for businesses to pay whatever wages they like and to place their offices and factories wherever they like (let the market decide), but workers mustn't be free to go whereever they like to work because that would mean letting Jonny Foreigner in (let the state decide).
Meanwhile, the 'lefties' want to let people move around freely all over the world and still not find a job because all the companies have been regulated or taxed out of business.

[DodgyAgent]

Continuing the simplistic binary 'lefty and righty' theme, according to the 'righties', the government should allow a free market for businesses to pay whatever wages they like and to place their offices and factories wherever they like (let the market decide), but workers mustn't be free to go whereever they like to work because that would mean letting Jonny Foreigner in (let the state decide).
Meanwhile, the 'lefties' want to let people move around freely all over the world and still not find a job because all the companies have been regulated or taxed out of business.

You should change your name to "Nutshell"

[darmstadt]

My view is that he should pay what the market says he should pay and not be allowed to go outside the EU.

What about the Commonwealth? What about if it's a load of really rich Chinese on tier 1 visas who just want to work as a wage slave for the hell of it?

[vetran]

My view is that he should pay what the market says he should pay and not be allowed to go outside the EU. As for your comments about interns, I would rather employ someone who has worked unpaid as an intern than someone who has simply sat at home drawing benefits. Whilst I do not like the idea of these people being exploited I am not like many of you going to categorise them as victims. If it was me and there were no paid jobs on the market for what I wanted to do (anyone could go and get a paid job picking fruit or packing flowers) then I would look upon an internship as training, just as you might if you decided to learn a new skill whilst being on the bench.
Unfortunately the wailings from the left simply have the effect of removing opportunities.

Yes but the point is that working unpaid as an intern requires the ability to support yourself while you do it. For our kids its fine, we can afford for them to live at home. As adults we all should have significant savings / resources behind us to retrain (Divorce etc willing).

Its not so easy when you are on benefits and you sign up for an internship or a low paid job you lose the lot at least for a significant period.

[DodgyAgent]

Yes but the point is that working unpaid as an intern requires the ability to support yourself while you do it. For our kids its fine, we can afford for them to live at home. As adults we all should have significant savings / resources behind us to retrain (Divorce etc willing).

Its not so easy when you are on benefits and you sign up for an internship or a low paid job you lose the lot at least for a significant period.

So who's problem is it? If an intern requires money to support himself then he can go and pick fruit or clean floors. If Tesco are giving internships on the basis they are getting free labour then that is the deal take it or leave it. If Tesco are forced to pay then they may decide they don't want to employ the people and put a stop to it. Who wins then? The lefties because it pleases them that they have put a stop to exploitation whereas the would be interns have no avenue to get into retail and are left either on the dole or picking fruit.

[Mich the Tester]

So who's problem is it? If an intern requires money to support himself then he can go and pick fruit or clean floors. If Tesco are giving internships on the basis they are getting free labour then that is the deal take it or leave it. If Tesco are forced to pay then they may decide they don't want to employ the people and put a stop to it. Who wins then? The lefties because it pleases them that they have put a stop to exploitation whereas the would be interns have no avenue to get into retail and are left either on the dole or picking fruit.

Yep. Aside from the money ,assuming 1 hour per day to travel to and from internship to work 8 hours, 1 hour a day to travel to and from fruit and veg picking and work 8 hours, then 2 hours a day to eat, tulip , wash and get dressed/undressed, he'll have 4 hours a day for sleep. What a great life; makes this 'career' thing look like a really wonderful option. I can understand people would give up and just stack shelves at Tesco or claim dole if that's the alternative.

[DodgyAgent]

Yep. Aside from the money ,assuming 1 hour per day to travel to and from internship to work 8 hours, 1 hour a day to travel to and from fruit and veg picking and work 8 hours, then 2 hours a day to eat, tulip , wash and get dressed/undressed, he'll have 4 hours a day for sleep. What a great life; makes this 'career' thing look like a really wonderful option. I can understand people would give up and just stack shelves at Tesco or claim dole if that's the alternative.

Yet again making assumptions that people are victims. I perfectly see why you are concerned and sympathetic and your nice middle class values make it that you are horrified that young people should face hardship.
It can be argued that your attitude (I have the same feelings) is also part of the problem that we think that by making it easy for young people to find a "good" job we are helping them. So often the opposite is true
If on the other hand you roll the clack back to your parents era you will find that people who found it hard to make a living and earn the right to a good career had better values than our generation.
What we actually need is a strong spirit of entrepreneurism that encourages people to take responsibility for themselves. We also need a strong sense of community and social interraction (the big society) where earning good money is a luxury not a means to buying essentials (health education).
What we do not need is to be taxed to oblivion giving money to governments to squander at the expense of free market capitalism that it has stifled in the first place.

[SpontaneousOrder]

You think having to pay tax is "violent force"?

Tell me what you mean by 'having to', and I'll tell you if it's 'violent force'.

For example, if I 'have to' give my wallet to a mugger or he'll kidnap me and lock me in a cage, then I don't see how anyone couldn't regard that as violent force.

[doodab]

Tell me what you mean by 'having to', and I'll tell you if it's 'violent force'.

For example, if I 'have to' give my wallet to a mugger or he'll kidnap me and lock me in a cage, then I don't see how anyone couldn't regard that as violent force.

You don't have to pay tax. It's part of the deal of living here, if you don't like it you are just as free to find somewhere else to live as a low wage worker is free to find a another job.