So another Tory Government

[Mich the Tester]

So what body would you want to represent the UK in Europe? One that looks after the interests of the French? Do you think any of the other EU countries allow themselves to be represented by people who do not have their own national interests at heart? Idiot.

What you seem to be saying there is that other EU countries don't let themselves get pushed around by Brussels, and I think that's largely true. So why does Britain let itself get pushed around? Is that the fault of the EU or the British government?

[Brussels Slumdog]

Voting with their feet

Firstly, taxation doesn't work as a market, because people can't choose where they are taxed, it comes as part of a package.

Secondly, lower taxes don't necessarily make a country more competitive, for example if they result in less good infrastructure and services.

I can choose which country to work and pay taxes. The rich ie rock stars normally choose to live where the taxes are lower. I doubt that Phil Collins lives in Switzerland to enjoy the wonderful scenery. Its possible to actually live nowhere if you are rich and not be any countries tax resident.
Why do rich Americans wish to give up their citizenship.
The Gulf states are very competitive and have a good infrustructure.

[DodgyAgent]

We have competitive tax systems now and yet we have all the downsides you say come with a harmonised tax system.

Also, you fail to consider what a harmonised system might look like other than as a strawman you don't like. As I said, there is no need for common rates, so plenty of room for competition in a harmonised system. Why do you insist on thinking otherwise?

Yes and the "competitive tax system" we have is enabling investment and growth to advance outside of the EU. We have saddled ourselves with common socialist policies that have made Europe uncompetitive.

if you are arguing that the EU should harmonise its taxes in order to compete with Asia asia then fine. I would imagine that would like getting Turkeys to vote for Christmas

[Mich the Tester]

I can choose which country to work and pay taxes. The rich ie rock stars normally choose to live where the taxes are lower. I doubt that Phil Collins lives in Switzerland to enjoy the wonderful scenery. Its possible to actually live nowhere if you are rich and not be any countries tax resident.
Why do rich Americans wish to give up their citizenship.
The Gulf states are very competitive and have a good infrustructure.

WHS, except that Switzerland has many more benefits than just low taxation, and other countries have low taxation too. Austria is an attractive country for rich families as it has no inheritance tax. Belgium is attractive for people who are already rich because of low wealth and inheritance taxes, but is a bummer for people who want to get rich due to high income taxes.

[doodab]

I can choose which country to work and pay taxes.

Exactly. It's a package. You can't choose which country to pay taxes in without also choosing where you live and work.

[DodgyAgent]

WHS, except that Switzerland has many more benefits than just low taxation, and other countries have low taxation too. Austria is an attractive country for rich families as it has no inheritance tax. Belgium is attractive for people who are already rich because of low wealth and inheritance taxes, but is a bummer for people who want to get rich due to high income taxes.

Which is exactly why each country should manage its own tax affairs.

[Mich the Tester]

Yes and the "competitive tax system" we have is enabling investment and growth to advance outside of the EU. We have saddled ourselves with common socialist policies that have made Europe uncompetitive.

if you are arguing that the EU should harmonise its taxes in order to compete with Asia asia then fine. I would imagine that would like getting Turkeys to vote for Christmas

The EU isn't going to harmonize tax rates for one simple reason; the members who pay the bills won't accept it.

[doodab]

Yes and the "competitive tax system" we have is enabling investment and growth to advance outside of the EU. We have saddled ourselves with common socialist policies that have made Europe uncompetitive.

if you are arguing that the EU should harmonise its taxes in order to compete with Asia asia then fine. I would imagine that would like getting Turkeys to vote for Christmas

Why can't you comprehend that a harmonized tax system doesn't imply harmonized rates? All countries have income tax, social insurance, vat and social insurances. Why not make those work in a common way and reduce the red tape so that they are simpler for people and companies to deal with? No one is saying the rates have to be the same everywhere.

[Mich the Tester]

Which is exactly why each country should manage its own tax affairs.

Yes indeed, and I haven't suggested they shouldn't. You know, you could sit in a bar in Germany saying exactly that to a bunch of CDU/CSU thigh slapping conservatives (the members of the party that holds power) and nearly all of them would nod their heads in agreement. The same goes for VVD or CDA members in NL. In fact the same even goes Dutch Labour party members, although I suspect the socialists actually want the freedom to tax my balls off and spend the proceeds on more speed bumps and civil servants. Even D66, supposedly the most 'pro Europe' party in NL is opposed to so-called tax harmonisation, because they support free market ideas and minimal regulation. Tax rate harmonisation ain't going to happen because the people who pay the bills in Europe don't want it.

[DodgyAgent]

Why can't you comprehend that a harmonized tax system doesn't imply harmonized rates? All countries have income tax, social insurance, vat and social insurances. Why not make those work in a common way and reduce the red tape so that they are simpler for people and companies to deal with? No one is saying the rates have to be the same everywhere.

You have made a very good point (accidents do happen )

There are lots of good things the EU does and I would accept your point. The debate is should these policies (along with the bad ones) be legalised by a third party? There are common standards of training and skills (the UK is the only country that charters its engineers) that indeed make it easier for business to happen within the EU. If we sign up to these we can expect our companies to be able to compete effectively for contracts.

At the same time there should be a mechanism by which we can pull away without having to resort to leaving the EU.