So another Tory Government

[Mich the Tester]

No

So you do accept the idea of supranational bodies that make laws?

[DodgyAgent]

So you do accept the idea of supranational bodies that make laws?

Maybe the Geneva convention but I do not subscribe to the concept beyond that. As far as Nato is concerned we can vote to pull out of it and we can veto what we like on the security council of the UN. There are indeed issues concerning security where we pool our sovereignty. Ultimately we have laws that enable us to operate within the mechanisms of these institutions something we will not have if we continue to give away powers to the EU.

[russell]

So you do accept the idea of supranational bodies that make laws?

He only wan't to be part of a body that benefits the UK, as soon as they have to contribute he want's out. Symptomatic of the agent mentality.

[Mich the Tester]

Maybe the Geneva convention but I do not subscribe to the concept beyond that. As far as Nato is concerned we can vote to pull out of it and we can veto what we like on the security council of the UN. There are indeed issues concerning security where we pool our sovereignty. Ultimately we have laws that enable us to operate within the mechanisms of these institutions something we will not have if we continue to give away powers to the EU.

Ah, but did I say that more powers should be given to the EU? No I didn't, in fact I think CMD's on the right track as far as taking powers back from the EU is concerned, and he'll find that a lot of people on the centre right in northern Europe agree with him; even some people on the left agree with him on that.

[sirja]

The current election map actually dose not favor the Torries. Also as long as UKIP is polling over 5% , left wing lib dems gravitate to Red Ed , and the North/Wales/Scotland remain an almost Tory free zone, I think it'll be hard for Dave to get an outright majority. I can see another coalition.

[DodgyAgent]

Ah, but did I say that more powers should be given to the EU? No I didn't, in fact I think CMD's on the right track as far as taking powers back from the EU is concerned, and he'll find that a lot of people on the centre right in northern Europe agree with him; even some people on the left agree with him on that.

If we stay in the EU then we will be giving more power to them. Nothing stands still . Any powers taken back will be trivial. Change will only happen if there is a significant revolution - the UK leaves. If we have a referendum and vote to stay in then big deal. The message they will get is that the UK has given their best shot and they will proceed to gather more and more power for themselves.

These people do not live in any sort of real world. They see the EU as a gravy train through which they can play out ideals as they see them. They have no accountability.

[doodab]

If you have competitive tax systems this puts the onus of responsibility onto the people who raise tax and most importantly what they do with it. If tax is raised and is spent well on infrastructure, health and everything else then it will make that country a more desirable place to live, have well educated workers, and be a place in which to invest and build a business etc. If tax is harmonised then governments can do what they like with it (and given the chance they will ) because every country will be a bureaucratic high tax, low level public service autocracy.

We have competitive tax systems now and yet we have all the downsides you say come with a harmonised tax system. That's because the market doesn't actually work properly and produce desirable outcomes.

Also, you fail to consider what a harmonised system might look like other than as a strawman you don't like. As I said, there is no need for common rates, so plenty of room for competition in a harmonised system. Why do you insist on thinking otherwise?

[DodgyAgent]

He only wan't to be part of a body that benefits the UK, as soon as they have to contribute he want's out. Symptomatic of the agent mentality.

So what body would you want to represent the UK in Europe? One that looks after the interests of the French? Do you think any of the other EU countries allow themselves to be represented by people who do not have their own national interests at heart? Idiot.

[Mich the Tester]

If we stay in the EU then we will be giving more power to them. Nothing stands still . Any powers taken back will be trivial. Change will only happen if there is a significant revolution - the UK leaves. If we have a referendum and vote to stay in then big deal. The message they will get is that the UK has given their best shot and they will proceed to gather more and more power for themselves.

Again I think you're wrong there; the mood in Berlin, the Hague, Copenhagen and Warsaw, or among the electorates that put centre and centre right parties in power in the 'sensible countries' of the north is absolutely NOT about handing more power to the EU; to the contrary in fact, with the notable exception of one German foreign minister who made a bit of a prat of himself at the last big conference saying that Britain had to be in fully or not at all, and was promptly put in his place by Frau Merkel who sees things in a rather more nuanced way. I think you'd like her actually; she's a Tory.

[doodab]

Free markets create their own monopolies that destroy "free markets" ... have a long lie down

Like communism they sow the seeds of their own downfall. Do you understand why I don't buy into the free markets solve all problems mantra now?