Crimewatch - Madeleine McCann

[russell]

If you do not have the intellect to argue the point then simply shut up instead of resorting to name calling. It is a simple argument either the victims (the Mcanns) are responsible wholly or partially for the abduction of their daughter or they are not.
Then if they are responsible by dint of leaving their children unattended then so is a rape victim by wearing clothes that may or may not attract a rapist?

In my view the whole thing is a matter of risk management that the Mcanns were simply unlucky and that the true culprit is whoever abducted their child.

They are not responsible for the abduction, however I think they could have prevented it by not leaving her alone. However it's all hindsight bias.

One question, do you think they would ever leave their kids alone again?

[MaryPoppins]

And I should be allowed to have an opinion that differs from yours without all the mumsnet types piling in with all their sentimental sickening "but children are the most important thing in the whole wide world, anyone who doesn't make every living moment revolve about their offspring is an evil pig" crap.

I seem to recall suggesting we agree to disagree some time ago but nobody wanted to let the matter drop.

Calm down, d000hg. You're rather hysterical there. Suggesting I wouldn't personally do what they did is not quite saying I make every living moment revolve around my child.

Of course you're allowed your opinion that differs from mine - most do. I just think you're being unnecessarily childish and you're not normally such a pillock.

[DodgyAgent]

What a thread.

I actually haven't seen or heard anyone say the McCanns deserved what happened.

They bare a huge responsibility and failed massively in their duty of care for their child, despite the preposterous examples given by some people in this thread.

The abductor is of course ultimately responsible, but all this, "what if they were in the other room, what if they were only at the bar for 15 minutes" bulltulip is ridiculous.

There is a massive difference, and frankly if you really want a line, then inside the walls of the apartment while your child is sleeping is it (either you, or a responsible babysitter)

And even if you think kidnapping is such a long probability, the main reason should be in case your child wakes and hurts themselves in the dark. Yes, you might not be able to stop them falling out of bed, but you'll be nearby to help.

And no, that doesn't mean I should put pillows all over the floor of their room, or sleep on the floor beside them, or not go to sleep myself etc.

Morons.

They may not have said it out loud but they are saying it by implication. As far as the 15 minute question is concerned then you tell us at what point is it that the Mcanns turn from being responsible to not being responsible. If you are arguing that they are responsible there has to be a break point in your own judgemental mind to which we can measure your judgement.

[Hairy]

No DA, no. The kid had no say, they were under the care of parents who were absent. If you admit this wouldn't have happened if they weren't there, then you’re admitting they had a part in the disappearance.

No parental choice you make, that can end up with the result of your kid being kidnapped, can be considered a good one; this isn’t ‘I gave my kid some chocolate as a baby’ kind of right and wrong argument; any decision you make, as a parent, which can end up with an abduction, isn't a good one. Not one. There has to be some perspective applied here.

[jmo21]

They may not have said it out loud but they are saying it by implication. As far as the 15 minute question is concerned then you tell us at what point is it that the Mcanns turn from being responsible to not being responsible. If you are arguing that they are responsible there has to be a break point in your own judgemental mind to which we can measure your judgement.

Try reading my post. I stated it quite clearly.

[DodgyAgent]

No DA, no. The kid had no say, they were under the care of parents who were absent. If you admit this wouldn't have happened if they weren't there, then you’re admitting they had a part in the disappearance.

No parental choice you make, that can end up with the result of your kid being kidnapped, can be considered a good one; this isn’t ‘I gave my kid some chocolate as a baby’ kind of right and wrong argument; any decision you make, as a parent, which can end up with an abduction, is a good one. Not one. There has to be some perspective applied here.

As a parent I could make every decision in the world to protect my child just how far do you take it? The Mcanns made a decision that may well have caused their children to be upset had they woken up but they could not have imagined for a minute that one of them would be abducted. the chances of this happening are tiny. I am sure there are things that you have done or not have done that have failed to safeguard your children from the million to one chance that they might die - yet you have got away with it. Do you test all their food before they eat it? Do you carry an air pollution monitor around with you to check for air pollution when you take them shopping? Do you have doctors and dentist surgeries tested for MRSA every time they visit?

Why not? The chances of your child contracting MRSA or some other poisoning are higher than being kidnapped in a club mark warner camp and yet you sanctimonious self righteous lot choose to blame the Mcanns for the abduction of their daughter. Shame on you.

[DodgyAgent]

They are not responsible for the abduction, however I think they could have prevented it by not leaving her alone. However it's all hindsight bias.

One question, do you think they would ever leave their kids alone again?

No so jolly dee they have learnt their lesson - I presume that pleases you

[d000hg]

No parental choice you make, that can end up with the result of your kid being kidnapped, can be considered a good one; any decision you make, as a parent, which can end up with an abduction, isn't a good one. Not one.

I don't know why you said the exact same thing twice... well if they had stayed in a different resort/hotel it wouldn't have happened. If they had requested a different room it wouldn't have happened. If they hadn't gone on holiday it wouldn't have happened.

Since you were so extremely explicit that any decision you make, as a parent, which can end up with an abduction, isn't a good one the decision to go on holiday clearly isn't a good one.

Woolly.

[Hairy]

As a parent I could make every decision in the world to protect my child just how far do you take it? The Mcanns made a decision that may well have caused their children to be upset had they woken up but they could not have imagined for a minute that one of them would be abducted. the chances of this happening are tiny. I am sure there are things that you have done or not have done that have failed to safeguard your children from the million to one chance that they might die - yet you have got away with it. Do you test all their food before they eat it? Do you carry an air pollution monitor around with you to check for air pollution when you take them shopping? Do you have doctors and dentist surgeries tested for MRSA every time they visit?

Why not? The chances of your child contracting MRSA or some other poisoning are higher than being kidnapped in a club mark warner camp and yet you sanctimonious self righteous lot choose to blame the Mcanns for the abduction of their daughter. Shame on you.

None of that. But, none is likely to lead to my kid being kidnapped.

They have to take some blame. I think it's quite obvious the majority of parents on here, most on here wouldn't do it. Period. It wouldnt have happened. without their neglect. remember the ages of maddie and her siblings. It was simply a bad idea. They have to have some culpability.

Every decision I make, as a parent, has my kids interest at heart. Every, single, one. Not mine. I'd say that was the case for most parents. They didn't. That's the long and the short if it.

[Hairy]

I don't know why you said the exact same thing twice... well if they had stayed in a different resort/hotel it wouldn't have happened. If they had requested a different room it wouldn't have happened. If they hadn't gone on holiday it wouldn't have happened.

Since you were so extremely explicit that any decision you make, as a parent, which can end up with an abduction, isn't a good one the decision to go on holiday clearly isn't a good one.

Woolly.

No, rubbish, for they're always with us. Always.

The decision to leave them alone, is a bad one.

Also, you can't say if they left them alone somewhere else, it wouldn't have happened, as it could have happened. I stay with my kids all the time on holiday. I do not leave anywhere they are.