More underhand tactics by an Indian Firm

[original PM]

Oh da you dirty capitalist

Also interesting to note that the top ten it disasters purposefully did not include those which resulted in loss of life

[MyUserName]

As ever you all seem to think that what you do is more important than it actually is. This pious notion you all seem to have of "quality" is a nonsense. What you are really concerned with is talking yourselves up under the illusion that you somehow deliver "high quality" systems. If I buy a car I am more than happy with a functional skoda. I do not need an Aston martin. If I buy clothes I may get what I pay for but so what?
If lawyers get things wrong then lives and businesses are ruined, same with doctors and accountants. If someone makes a mess of an IT program in a banking system it is the banks responsibility and not the IT person. It is a secondary level function, it is a component of something bigger and as such the risk sits with the ownership of the whole. Law accountancy and health are front line critical services where mistakes cause huge problems.
If IT was so important don't you think that the governments of the world would already have elevated the status of what you do to a fully controlled, rules based profession? Of course they would have done.

What you do is just not that important. Live with it.

Surely that depends on what we are actually doing? If I am writing safety critical software for a nuclear power plant or the guidance system of a space ship then surely what I am doing is very important.

[eek]

Surely that depends on what we are actually doing? If I am writing safety critical software for a nuclear power plant or the guidance system of a space ship then surely what I am doing is very important.

Yes and its probably done in triplicate...

However, I love the idea that a Bank's systems are not important. Imagine that the £100k from client x doesn't arrive while the £90k of staff wages due the following day are attempted to be paid out...

And if I'm secondary why do I have a level of professional liability cover that surprises even the oil industry workers I deal with...

[craig1]

Quite. Contractors (rightly so) will go to whoever gets them the work. We agents take the view that either we compete or we get out of the business.

Again, nope. A good example was in 2011, I had two contracts that year:
- one was with a premium agency who ran at a 15% margin, I was paid one week after a weekly invoice, never had to chase, easy contract with no hassle to opt-out or dodgy contract terms. I sent my invoice in, I got paid, easy stuff. I've been working through them since 2003, they keep in touch and are a great source of recurring, high quality work for high quality clients.
- the other was with a cheapo agency on 4% margin, I had to chase every single invoice for payment, only one out of the entire contract was paid on time. It took the threat of a law suit to get my final invoice paid in full. They hassled me relentlessly, even after I started working, to opt out. Since I left that contract they keep spamming me asking me to get my current clients to switch to them citing how cheap they were. They just don't get "no, go away, I will never work through you again".

Commodity IT people are happy to work for commodity agencies, those of us with long-term views know that it's rarely worth the low margin to work with idiot agents and agencies.

[lilelvis2000]

The top 10 IT disasters of all time | ZDNet

THey were all caused by on-shored developers.

Before offshoring 70% of all IT projects failed (from a presentation I once heard, most of us worked on plenty of failed projects in the 90's). IT Acedemia used to have a term called the "Software Crisis" which was coined in the 1980's, admittedly to justify their research into improving methods.

IF only 50% of offshored projects fail that's still a tremendous improvement.

There are some pretty big disasters here in the UK. NHS, HMRC, BBC all pretty recent and mainly on-shore projects. Mostly caused by poor management or poor requirements.

[lilelvis2000]

Yes and its probably done in triplicate...

However, I love the idea that a Bank's systems are not important. Imagine that the £100k from client x doesn't arrive while the £90k of staff wages due the following day are attempted to be paid out...

And if I'm secondary why do I have a level of professional liability cover that surprises even the oil industry workers I deal with...

I'm thinking it was not so much that IT isn't important - but that IT workers are cogs in a big machine. Replace cog with another made in India and continue operating.

[eek]

There are some pretty big disasters here in the UK. NHS, HMRC, BBC all pretty recent and mainly on-shore projects. Mostly caused by poor management and poor requirements.

FTFY As the latter follows the former as sure as night follows day. Decent management would never let a project begin without everything mapped out before hand. Its why I've always delivered on time, to budget until current clientco and the entertainment it provides....

[eek]

I'm thinking it was not so much that IT isn't important - but that IT workers are cogs in a big machine. Replace cog with another made in India and continue operating.

But that is true of lawyers and accountants to. Most are equally replaceable if not more replaceable than your average long term permie.

There is one well known company rapidly rebranding because the knowledge of how one brand's crm system works is contained in one ex employees head.

[SussexSeagull]

As ever you all seem to think that what you do is more important than it actually is. This pious notion you all seem to have of "quality" is a nonsense. What you are really concerned with is talking yourselves up under the illusion that you somehow deliver "high quality" systems. If I buy a car I am more than happy with a functional skoda. I do not need an Aston martin. If I buy clothes I may get what I pay for but so what?
If lawyers get things wrong then lives and businesses are ruined, same with doctors and accountants. If someone makes a mess of an IT program in a banking system it is the banks responsibility and not the IT person. It is a secondary level function, it is a component of something bigger and as such the risk sits with the ownership of the whole. Law accountancy and health are front line critical services where mistakes cause huge problems.
If IT was so important don't you think that the governments of the world would already have elevated the status of what you do to a fully controlled, rules based profession? Of course they would have done.

What you do is just not that important. Live with it.

Depends what you are doing. Someone testing a Air Traffic Control System or Nuclear Power Station Critical Safety System is doing something more risky than a Doctor giving out two paracetamol.

Still, don't let reason stand in the way of your constant quest for 'look at me mummy' attention.

[vetran]

But that is true of lawyers and accountants to. Most are equally replaceable if not more replaceable than your average long term permie.

There is one well known company rapidly rebranding because the knowledge of how one brand's crm system works is contained in one ex employees head.

lets be serious most accountancy rules are clearly published & documented.