OOP, RDBMS and BTEC

[SueEllen]

I am regularly surprised how dumb many graduates are. I have met guys with supposedly good degrees from top universities that joined the company graduate programme straight from uni and then stayed with the same company for a decade or more... The result is most are still only on £40k a year...

You are aware many graduates are pushed by their parents up until they are 18 and have it indoctrinated into them what they should do next.

[Gibbon]

I am afraid that degrees are important. By not getting a degree one is almost barring oneself from getting many jobs.

If all else fails become a recruitment consultant (even these need to be graduates for many agencies)

Ahem, not quite true, but this is:

Me - left school at 16 - safety critical software engineer in the aerospace industry and aspiring classicist.

Wife - left school at 16 - Head of Service for Mental Health.

Brother - left school at 16 - Director of a major canning company currently based in Moscow

Best Friend - left school at 16 - On the board of a major power company.

Yep, I'm lagging seriously behind.

[mudskipper]

Ahem, not quite true, but this is:

Me - left school at 16 - safety critical software engineer in the aerospace industry and aspiring classicist.

Wife - left school at 16 - Head of Service for Mental Health.

Brother - left school at 16 - Director of a major canning company currently based in Moscow

Best Friend - left school at 16 - On the board of a major power company.

Yep, I'm lagging seriously behind.

Ditto, but I think it is harder these days. When I left school at 16, so did lots of others. I had a good set of O levels, so got in as a trainee with the MOD who paid for day release etc. Not sure those opportunities exist for 16 year olds these days. It may swing back a bit with the uni fees price hike.

[Gibbon]

Ditto, but I think it is harder these days. When I left school at 16, so did lots of others. I had a good set of O levels, so got in as a trainee with the MOD who paid for day release etc. Not sure those opportunities exist for 16 year olds these days. It may swing back a bit with the uni fees price hike.

Good point, it's almost as if a degree now counts as 5 good 'o' levels which used to be the benchmark.

[bobspud]

You are aware many graduates are pushed by their parents up until they are 18 and have it indoctrinated into them what they should do next.

Not quite the reason to end up 60k in debt is it?

Good point, it's almost as if a degree now counts as 5 good 'o' levels which used to be the benchmark.

Apart from the fact that 5 good O'levels was exactly that. Now it seems any idiot can get a degree and many frequently do...

[eek]

Not quite the reason to end up 60k in debt is it?

Going to uni means losing 10% of your income for many years in repayments. Unless you know what you want to do its a very expensive way of making your mind up.

Apart from the fact that 5 good O'levels was exactly that. Now it seems any idiot can get a degree and many frequently do...

The problem is that many areas which used to take people with 5 good o'levels now insist on a degree. Law is an area that does, accountancy looks like it does but actually doesn't and a few large firms now take on trainees with good A levels. If I was heading towards uni and thinking of becoming an accountant I would be trying to get on those schemes as well as uni and would bin uni if I got on one of the schemes.

See Audit Programme | School and College Leavers | KPMG Careers in the UK for one of the options.

[bobspud]

Going to uni means losing 10% of your income for many years in repayments. Unless you know what you want to do its a very expensive way of making your mind up.



The problem is that many areas which used to take people with 5 good o'levels now insist on a degree. Law is an area that does, accountancy looks like it does but actually doesn't and a few large firms now take on trainees with good A levels. If I was heading towards uni and thinking of becoming an accountant I would be trying to get on those schemes as well as uni and would bin uni if I got on one of the schemes.

See Audit Programme | School and College Leavers | KPMG Careers in the UK for one of the options.

Yes sponsorship is a very good way to ensure you are trained properly and not wasting 3 years and a tonne of cash...

I wonder why you don't see more contractors taking on the kids and training them....

[sasguru]

University is not only about training to earn lots of money - I suspect that people who are motivated by money will find different ways to get it.
It's about taking time off your life to dream, think, shag, fall in love, develop interests in various fields, generally grow and quite importantly make contacts.
Not counting the contacts I made in school (and whose network comes in handy still) at uni I met the following who I'm still in touch with:

1. Spanish minor royalty
2. An "Honourable", Lord's son
3. Scion of Italian dynastic business.
4. Scion of German dynastic business.
etc etc.

I've had one long-term contract through one of the above connections and have a nice extensive European network of people I can stay with abroad (and reciprocate of course).
It may cost a bit to go, but if you go to the right one the benefits are priceless.

Also anecdotal evidence aside, I'm afraid a degree (and nowadays a bacelors isn't enough, you need a masters) is essential for the best jobs in blue-chips let alone large multinationals whether they be private companies, the EU or the UN.

And that is why I am already saving for SG junior's university fund.

[bobspud]

University is not only about training to earn lots of money - I suspect that people who are motivated by money will find different ways to get it.
It's about taking time off your life to dream, think, shag, fall in love, develop interests in various fields, generally grow and quite importantly make contacts.
Not counting the contacts I made in school (and whose network comes in handy still) at uni I met the following who I'm still in touch with:

1. Spanish minor royalty
2. An "Honourable", Lord's son
3. Scion of Italian dynastic business.
4. Scion of German dynastic business.
etc etc.

I've had one long-term contract through one of the above connections and have a nice extensive European network of people I can stay with abroad (and reciprocate of course).
It may cost a bit to go, but if you go to the right one the benefits are priceless.

Also anecdotal evidence aside, I'm afraid a degree (and nowadays a bacelors isn't enough, you need a masters) is essential for the best jobs in blue-chips let alone large multinationals whether they be private companies, the EU or the UN.

And that is why I am already saving for SG junior's university fund.

By your standards I achieved a degree at three universities while earning 20k a year as a tape swapping monkey

As my mates went off to get their degree I just set up a sofa surfing rota of free beer madness. £20k buys a hell of alot of beer at 40p a pint uni prices

The making contacts part is true but thats only if you get in the right university, the rest of the plebes are going to get lumbered at an ex-polytechnic and the only contact they will be making will be with the STD clinic.

[KentPhilip]

University is not only about training to earn lots of money - I suspect that people who are motivated by money will find different ways to get it.
It's about taking time off your life to dream, think, shag, fall in love, develop interests in various fields, generally grow and quite importantly make contacts.

I went to Oxbridge and never did any of that
It was a waste of time, and has done me no good at all. Other than having it as a "badge" on my CV to lure unsuspecting clients into thinking I am something special (I am not).

I only keep up with three people from uni, and they're all losers. Apart from one who somehow made it to director in a firm of accountants. And he is a geek.

I think sas you need to appreciate that not everyone has your amazing brains and abilities - some people need to know their place, and it ain't necessarily at the top of the pile.