OOP, RDBMS and BTEC

[SueEllen]

I'd not listen to Sas, as, well, he's a liar.

Actually he isn't.

Personally I would advise any young person do to A levels and a degree that leaves a many career options open for them as possible. Partly because they will be working until they are at least 70 and having the right intially training will make it easy to change career in their 40s.

I also know 5 people who have computer science degrees and don't work in the industry. 3 of them did work in the industry but preferred to use their skills to do other jobs and 1 of them simply couldn't stand the sh*t they received from employers.

Also if they do the A levels at another school or college it would be worth looking at their A level results and for him to move to a different place. Finally paying for a tutor for one or two of his A levels subjects will help him.

[Old Hack]

Yeah, sorry about lying.
Us statisticians are on the breadline, what with our miserable rates.
Stick to the mass-market of programming/development.

Well, you do spout an awful lot of tulip sas, so it's difficult to cut the wheat from the chaff. You do understand the parable of the boy who called wolf?

Mass market programming? Who does that? I know I don't. Trouble is sas, you think we're all one trick ponies. If I could only develop as a skill, I wouldn't earn anywhere near what I do.

Can't find anywhere where stats peeps earn heaps, but there you go.

[doodab]

Can't find anywhere where stats peeps earn heaps, but there you go.

I know a few consulting actuaries. They aren't poor. Was a lot of work getting fully qualified though, and the really rich ones are rich cos they own the firm.

[Dominic Connor]

Some actual proper serious advice

I agree that without OO, RDBMS etc he's going to flounder.

Both of these can be taken to an absurd depth, but it's hard to see him getting as job.

You can think of post-18 education as "how to read this sort of manual", no degree (or BTEC) is going to produce a programmer unless the student does some actual programming and even then they are at best apprentices.

Being that I'm an evil. scumbag pimp who asks snarky questions, if this lad was in front of me I'd have to ask if his A levels were so awful, why does he think he can cut it in IT ?

Also as a pimp I have to say yes there is snobbery around degrees/BTEC, just because it is not rational does not mean it is not true, a variant of that will be carved on my tombstone .

My first thought is for him to swallow his pride and do the A levels again, with luck it is motivation that let him down not brainpower. Motivation is a lot easier to fix, in fact the experience of seeing his mates go to uni and facing the misery of a sub-graduate career may be the kick he needs. Also if that isn't enough then frankly it might be better for him to learn to be a plumber or gas fitter, something that can be said for a lot of people who go to univ.

Given that that the MS certification path is imploding, he ought to look at a BTEC that also CISCO certifies him, I know one course where they guy in charge has a clue, contact me if interested.

[eek]

You can think of post-18 education as "how to read this sort of manual", no degree (or BTEC) is going to produce a programmer unless the student does some actual programming and even then they are at best apprentices.

Being that I'm an evil. scumbag pimp who asks snarky questions, if this lad was in front of me I'd have to ask if his A levels were so awful, why does he think he can cut it in IT ?

Also as a pimp I have to say yes there is snobbery around degrees/BTEC, just because it is not rational does not mean it is not true, a variant of that will be carved on my tombstone .

Which is why I said to find an apprenticeship in IT. At least then he would find out if its really what he wants to do and whether he has the capability to actually do what he wants to do.

Going back to do A levels may be an option but unless he spends two years doing them he isn't going to improve his grades sufficiently and many unis will just reject him out of hand based on his initial results...

[Old Hack]

Which is why I said to find an apprenticeship in IT. At least then he would find out if its really what he wants to do and whether he has the capability to actually do what he wants to do.

Going back to do A levels may be an option but unless he spends two years doing them he isn't going to improve his grades sufficiently and many unis will just reject him out of hand based on his initial results...

He'd probably not learn as much with an apprenticeship though; the first thing my boss told me after cherry picking me from university was to forget everything I had been taught, as the real world didn't work like that. Although, I guess with an organised apprenticeship, they'd be paths they had to follow. Possibly a better path for those who learn easier through doing, rather than through theory.

If it was me, I'd take the pain and resit.

[eek]

He'd probably not learn as much with an apprenticeship though; the first thing my boss told me after cherry picking me from university was to forget everything I had been taught, as the real world didn't work like that. Although, I guess with an organised apprenticeship, they'd be paths they had to follow. Possibly a better path for those who learn easier through doing, rather than through theory.

If it was me, I'd take the pain and resit.

The risk there is that it's 2 years for A levels (which may not work) , 3-4 years for a degree (if he resolves the a level issue) to start at the beginning. A decent apprenticeship bypasses that.

And a degree doesn't mean you get anything afterwards. You still need to find a decent company afterwards to learn to do things correctly. If you can find that company now why wait

[TheFaQQer]

Pearson do some apprenticeships, which look like they could get some decent skills.

eg https://www.ucasprogress.com/course/...apprenticeship

[yasockie]

Totally agree with sasguru - the world is flooded with data that begs to be analysed, even Tesco that you wouldn't normally accuse of paying decent rates is paying silly money for data scientist.
The only reason I didn't get into that myself is I find the whole lifestyle a bit unexcting, I much prefer my undercover agent life, chasing villains etc.
Have him learn R and see if he enjoys it.

[sasguru]

Totally agree with sasguru - the world is flooded with data that begs to be analysed, even Tesco that you wouldn't normally accuse of paying decent rates is paying silly money for data scientist.
The only reason I didn't get into that myself is I find the whole lifestyle a bit unexcting, I much prefer my undercover agent life, chasing villains etc.
Have him learn R and see if he enjoys it.

For Tesco read dunnhumby