OOP, RDBMS and BTEC

[sasguru]

And what is to stop you getting "bobbed" having learned statistics? Are the indians incapable of learning maths?
In this and previous posts you have advised people to learn stats etc as a way of earning more money in IT. But surely if it is hard to do this (such that bobs are physically unable to compete) then it is likely that a person of an average intellect is going to find it also hard.
If someone goes into a "high end" skill like stats then they are going to be competing with people who are intellectually superior to them, and that is going to cause their careers in that field to suffer. So any pay increase resulting in the intrinsic higher worth of the job is going to be cancelled out by their relatively low position in it?

Of course this is not a problem you have yourself Sas as you are so brilliant lol

no they don't have a clue :

Indian mathematics - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

good job we have SAS!

Bollux.

The reason that the bob's won't get that far in the stats side of the business is that they would need to start getting near the senior management teams and articulating the findings... I think its the main reason why so many indian firms are desperate to find good on shore architects and SME's to take the flak and handle those relationships. As a model its very clever.

Sense.


HTH, BIKIW

[DodgyAgent]

Not my experience but it was 30 years ago I was taught micro electronics by a number of well known technological authors. The compsci people that worked for me couldn't explain how a computer booted, the HNC ones could.

It may be the HNC/D ones found it interesting and the Compsci ones saw it as a career.

Have to disagree about no degree, its a filter used by many Agents I wish I had done one.

Dominic / Dodgy your comments could be valuable.

I am afraid that degrees are important. By not getting a degree one is almost barring oneself from getting many jobs.

If all else fails become a recruitment consultant (even these need to be graduates for many agencies)

[vetran]

The reason that the bob's won't get that far in the stats side of the business is that they would need to start getting near the senior management teams and articulating the findings... I think its the main reason why so many indian firms are desperate to find good on shore architects and SME's to take the flak and handle those relationships. As a model its very clever.

yes but having let many of them into the business at a senior level due to their low cost many have already have exposure to management teams and vice versa.

some asinine bloke jerking himself off in his eco shed versus a suited and booted educated Indian from a global consultant which are you going to hire?

[Dominic Connor]

You assume a lot. I said his grades were lower than predicted, and there were issues with the teaching of some subjects, meaning he would have to improve a lot over the second year to get into the Universities he aspires to. Whereas he was a finalist in last years’ ‘Young Rewired State’ event, he attended a ‘Head Start’ CompSci summer school type thing at Aston Uni and the organiser wrote him this reference:

As it happens I'm on the Council of the RTC whose funding helped this happen, so I'm glad it did some good, though we no longer fund YRS.

If the references are what they say on the tin, then it moves me more towards the retake A level path. If you are capable of getting to a decent uni then that is what you should do.

There does exist a frankly desperate path if he's willing to get hit repeatedly in the teeth and is as good at programming as you say...

Directly contact the admissions office and Prof in charge of admissions at Unis, say you can actually program and that for personal reasons you screwed up your A levels. Ask if you could pop round and talk for half an hour to explain why you should be admitted.

I talk to academics and of the top 5 in the UK for CS, every one of them referred to the 1st year of CS as "remedial" or words that effect. Entertainingly, the profs concerned spoke to me on grounds on anonymity, except for Cambridge where they explained that they assume no prior knowledge of computing whatever and were happy to make that public.

If you can code, you might just hook their interest.

Unis actually have far more discretion than you might think, they keep this pretty quiet because they do not want thousands of failure grade people hassling them, but in general if you have any A levels at all they can choose to admit you, if they want to. In this I speak as someone who used to be on the academic board of a Russell group institution.

They will probably say no.

My algo would be to work my way down the list of top unis, having no said to me repeatedly.

Why subject yourself to such pain ?

To your son I'd say "your career is 50 years long unless you're brilliant and lucky or crap and unlucky", two days of misery are irrelevant on that scale.

[sasguru]

yes but having let many of them into the business at a senior level due to their low cost many have already have exposure to management teams and vice versa.

some asinine bloke jerking himself off in his eco shed versus a suited and booted educated Indian from a global consultant which are you going to hire?

You know, I have you down as a cretin. And you confirm it with every ignorant post you make.

[doodab]

Unis actually have far more discretion than you might think, they keep this pretty quiet because they do not want thousands of failure grade people hassling them, but in general if you have any A levels at all they can choose to admit you, if they want to. In this I speak as someone who used to be on the academic board of a Russell group institution.

In my day they would make you a conditional offer of CC or similar when their standard entry requirement was AAA or AAB. It was their way of saying come hither if they thought you had potential.

[bobspud]

yes but having let many of them into the business at a senior level due to their low cost many have already have exposure to management teams and vice versa.

some asinine bloke jerking himself off in his eco shed versus a suited and booted educated Indian from a global consultant which are you going to hire?

I don't think their model is mature enough to compete with us on shore at the moment. Not even in the next decade for what its worth. At the risk of befriending Sas the offshore mode of operation is many hands make light work and if 10 workers start on a job 8 will fail and 2 will get close enough. The native model is shoot once shoot true. Understand the wider implications and make intelligent decisions based on evolving data. I have seen Offshore resources sit still for a week because a problem occurred and they were waiting for instructions to get round the problem.

There is no comparison for now.

[SueEllen]

yes but having let many of them into the business at a senior level due to their low cost many have already have exposure to management teams and vice versa.

some asinine bloke jerking himself off in his eco shed versus a suited and booted educated Indian from a global consultant which are you going to hire?

Lots of people on this board are hired for their technical skills and creative skills and soft skills.

Since Bobs are brought up in a society where deference to those higher up the rankings is really important, they have a problem with soft skills.

Others have alluded to their issue with creative skills.

We aren't the only industry to notice this.

[aussielong]

When you are young you should do the hardest subjects that you can cope with, whilst keeping doors open by not being too specialised too early on.

Hard A-levels followed by a good degree from a decent uni, is a well trodden path to success.

[bobspud]

When you are young you should do the hardest subjects that you can cope with, whilst keeping doors open by not being too specialised too early on.

Hard A-levels followed by a good degree from a decent uni, is a well trodden path to success.

I am regularly surprised how dumb many graduates are. I have met guys with supposedly good degrees from top universities that joined the company graduate programme straight from uni and then stayed with the same company for a decade or more... The result is most are still only on £40k a year...