Right to reside? keeping Johnny foreigner off our benefits or discriminatory?

[DodgyAgent]

I only work 3 days a week. Because I was smart in my earlier working life. Although that will change soon.
And even if that wasn't the case, it doesn't invalidate my point only strengthens it.
Basically, the natives are too lazy and unproductive.

HTH, BIKIW.

Not bad for an 85 year old

[CoolCat]

Which benefits are too generous?

Lots of examples:

1 Full NHS cover from day one, even for seriously expensive pre existing conditions, to anyone coming in on a work visa, student visa, etc or family member of same.

2 Free schooling for children of work visa, student visa, etc holders.

3 Big tax and national insurance dispensations for foreign nationals here.

4 Even folk supposed to be charged for NHS, or with home governements having reciprocal arrangements, are hardly ever charged.

and so on and so on and so on

[Mich the Tester]

maybe if the benefits went down or wages up the bottom rung out of work would be willing to work rather than being better off on benefits? we wouldn't need cheap labour?

Maybe, maybe not, but what does that have to do with 'Johnny Foreigner's benefits?

Nothing; you've proved my point; the problem is a British problem, not cause by the EU but by a poorly run benefits system in Britain and a screwed up labour market in which Britain's low end workers are paid too little and so-called directors actually take no risk are paid too much.

[Mich the Tester]

Lots of examples:

1 Full NHS cover from day one, even for seriously expensive pre existing conditions, to anyone coming in on a work visa, student visa, etc or family member of same.

2 Free schooling for children of work visa, student visa, etc holders.

3 Big tax and national insurance dispensations for foreign nationals here.

4 Even folk supposed to be charged for NHS, or with home governements having reciprocal arrangements, are hardly ever charged.

and so on and so on and so on

All these exist in other countries, in one form or another. Point 1 is a little different, as you need to buy health insurance in many EU countries, but even without health insurance you'll be given emergency care in most places.

Face up to it; this isn't the EU's fault, it's the fault of piss poor government and piss poor business management in Britain. Sort that out instead of blaming someone else.

[doodab]

For all immigrants benefits should be contributory based. Nothing else. I think this is the case in Germany and Dutch.

Yes, that is exactly the point. If someone from the EU comes here and works and pays tax and NI they should be allowed to claim UK benefits in the same way as anyone else. The court case is happening because they aren't.

FWIW, I believe EU migrants are net contributors, that is to say that as a whole they pay more into the system than they take out. They are effectively subsidising us.

[vetran]

Because they're paying for something from whose use thy are excluded.

so am I.

I'm paying for
pension benefits that I will not receive (I have private pensions which will exceed state provision so it will be taxed) .
Unemployment benefits I will not receive I have too many savings.
Old age care I will not receive I have too many assets.

Either due to private provision or individual wealth.

many other things are paid for out of my tax that I am unlikely to benefit from.

I pay these as they are part of the deal for living in a civilised society.

If I went to another country and I paid a premium as a visitor then that would be part of my decision whether to work there.

[Mich the Tester]

Yes, that is exactly the point. If someone from the EU comes here and works and pays tax and NI they should be allowed to claim UK benefits in the same way as anyone else. The court case is happening because they aren't.

FWIW, I believe EU migrants are net contributors, that is to say that as a whole they pay more into the system than they take out. They are effectively subsidising us.

Stop with these facts; that's unfair!

[Mich the Tester]

some am I.

I'm paying for
pension benefits that I will not receive (I have private pensions which will exceed state provision so it will be taxed) .
Unemployment benefits I will not receive I have too many savings.
Old age care I will not receive I have too many assets.

Either due to private provision or individual wealth.

many other things are paid for out of my tax that I am unlikely to benefit from.

I pay these as they are part of the deal for living in a civilised society.

If I went to another country and I paid a premium as a visitor then that would be part of my decision whether to work there.

Yes, so stop blaming immigrants and the EU when it's the UK system that's fooked.

[vetran]

Yes, so stop blaming immigrants and the EU when it's the UK system that's fooked.

I wasn't I was replying to your point that its unfair to pay for benefits you aren't eligible for.

[vetran]

Stop with these facts; that's unfair!

what facts?

I believe that Tobacco tax is a net contributor!

that is a fact if you only look at tax receipts. If you look at the wider picture it may not hold true.