Challenge for the UKIP

[Brussels Slumdog]

If we are out the EU the rules do not apply to us anymore.

The agreements that we made during our membership may well still apply . The US and the EU will put pressure on the UK like they put pressure on Switzerland to comply

[d000hg]

Surely one could not be in the EU but set up separate free trade agreements with the EU (or individual EU members) for mutual benefit anyway?

[Mich the Tester]

The real unknown relates to UK citizens currently living in euroland. Firstly we will not be allowed to vote in the referendum

Indeed. Very democratic indeed; deny the vote to millions of people who'll be most affected. Actually it was Tony B Lyingscumbagtulipfacewarcriminal (I hate him) who took the vote away from many expats, but I supposed that's convenient for UKIP and the right of the Conservative party. After all, if you ask the expats, we might vote the wrong way.

[Mich the Tester]

Surely one could not be in the EU but set up separate free trade agreements with the EU (or individual EU members) for mutual benefit anyway?

What, like the Swiss, who could have vetoed a lot of EU tax avoidance legislation and thereby preserved their banking laws if they'd joined? Or the Norwegians, who don't need to join because they have extensive trade and movement agreements with Sweden, which is a member?

[d000hg]

Yes. Trade agreements have been around long before the EU and very flexible ones exist around the globe right now between all kinds of nations.

[Mich the Tester]

I agree strongly with a lot of British assessments of the EU. I even agree with some of Nigel Farage's rants about it; it's a huge bureaucratic monster, with dubious democratic credentials, slurping up money and pissing it down the drain, is completely ineffective in dealing with dodgy regimes within Europe and is frankly, in its current state, unfit for purpose. So imagine how bad it will be without Britain, and ask yourself 'do I gain anything when my neighbours go completely off the rails?' No, you don't, you'll go down with the rest of us. The EU needs drastic reform, Britain is one of the few countries pushing for it, but electorates in northern Europe (the ones that pay the bills for the EU) are screaming out for it even if Mrs Merkel isn't saying so because she's trying to manage a crisis.

[Mich the Tester]

Yes. Trade agreements have been around long before the EU and very flexible ones exist around the globe right now between all kinds of nations.

Do you think the French do this 'flexible' thing?

At the moment they do, to a certain degree, because the EU forces them to do so.

[minestrone]

No, they don't apply to Britain, but they apply to anyone in the EU who may want to buy stuff from Britain. Stuff like financial services, which the Swiss are finding increasingly difficult to sell in the EU.

I must admit though, my call for Britain to remain is also based on two selfish reasons related to things that would affect me;

1, my residence in the EU is easy thanks to EU passport. I don't think the Dutch would be studid enough to start throwing out the British expats seeing as we're quite a productive lot, but I don't know, and it would possibly be more difficult for British citizens and companies to get government contracts here.

2, the almost sensible countries in the EU (Germany, Holland, Denmark etc; the northern countries) really need Britain in as an ally to help stop the lunacy coming from the south. Example; that stupid olive oil bottles legislation was finally stopped, even though the laws had passed parliament, by the Call-me-Dave, Auntie Angela and the Dutch PM (who had a brief moment of usefulness) who all ridiculed the legislation and made it clear it had to go.

The Swiss do private banking, too private for the rest of the world and they got rightly shafted for that.

London is a trading place, if a French billionaire wants to purchase a range of options nobody is going to get in his way.

[Brussels Slumdog]

We are the small fish

Indeed. Very democratic indeed; deny the vote to millions of people who'll be most affected. Actually it was Tony B Lyingscumbagtulipfacewarcriminal (I hate him) who took the vote away from many expats, but I supposed that's convenient for UKIP and the right of the Conservative party. After all, if you ask the expats, we might vote the wrong way.

Mich, We are the small fish and will probabily still be able to live and work in euroland based on our skills. The biggest losers will be the current Brits enjoying retirement in Spain based on their old age pension with the possibilty of not having access to the european heath care system.

[DodgyAgent]

I agree strongly with a lot of British assessments of the EU. I even agree with some of Nigel Farage's rants about it; it's a huge bureaucratic monster, with dubious democratic credentials, slurping up money and pissing it down the drain, is completely ineffective in dealing with dodgy regimes within Europe and is frankly, in its current state, unfit for purpose. So imagine how bad it will be without Britain, and ask yourself 'do I gain anything when my neighbours go completely off the rails?' No, you don't, you'll go down with the rest of us. The EU needs drastic reform, Britain is one of the few countries pushing for it, but electorates in northern Europe (the ones that pay the bills for the EU) are screaming out for it even if Mrs Merkel isn't saying so because she's trying to manage a crisis.

I disagree that it will be bad without Britain. Once it sees the second biggest economy withdrawing from it then it will have to reform itself. The right for a member state to withdraw is about the only lever of democratic accountability the EU has.