Challenge for the UKIP

[Ticktock]

Yes. Trade agreements have been around long before the EU and very flexible ones exist around the globe right now between all kinds of nations.

You're right. I remember this massive trade agreement called... what was it now... Oh yes! The European Economic Community. Oh well, drop the Economic limit, change it from a Community to a Union... no-one will notice.

[Mich the Tester]

The Swiss do private banking, too private for the rest of the world and they got rightly shafted for that.

London is a trading place, if a French billionaire wants to purchase a range of options nobody is going to get in his way.

No they weren't 'rightly shafted'. They had a set of laws that were made by democratically elected representatives in a sovereign state. The fact that surrounding countries have been stupid enough to tax their citizens so heavily that Switzerland gained the money is not the fault of the Swiss, but the fault of those countries who can't afford their own fat, bloated over the top governments. Britain didn't suffer from Switzerland in the past, indeed I never heard Margaret Thatcher or John Major complaining about the Swiss, because they did their damndest to bring the tax burden down to sensible levels which didn't incentivise avoidance or evasion. Since the British elected Tony B Liar and the Snot Goblin, they started whining, and George Osborne continues the whining because he has a little known but extremely common mental illness called BSE; Blame Somebody Else.

[Lockhouse]

Where do we look to expand our trade if we leave the EU?

EU exit would put US trade deal at risk, Britain warned | World news | guardian.co.uk

I prefer not to put any credence in a left wing article in a left wing newspaper about what a left wing president "might" do. Obama hates the Brits in any event. He has no notion of "history".

We'll still sell stuff to Europe, and they to us. People also conveniently forget about the British Commonwealth. Also there's the BRICS countries - basically anyone and everyone, same as now.

I expect to see loads of scare stories like this in the run up to the next elections. UKIP has the establishment very worried.

[Mich the Tester]

I disagree that it will be bad without Britain. Once it sees the second biggest economy withdrawing from it then it will have to reform itself. The right for a member state to withdraw is about the only lever of democratic accountability the EU has.

It's better for it to fall apart with Britain in than out, because then Britain gets to work with the Germanics, the Scandinavians and possibly the northern Italians (you know, the ones that do the work instead of doing mafia deals) to build something better.

Do you deal with Germans a lot? I do, every day. I get to hear what they really think of the EU and what they really think of the French, and you would find yourself agreeing with them more often than you may think. In fact, the opinions of many German techies and engineers about their French counterparts, or German CDU/CSU thigh slapping farmers and factory technicians think, is barely printable, but involves liberal use of the words ' feckless', 'lazy', 'incompetent', 'subsidy parasites' and ' bastards'.

[Mich the Tester]

I prefer not to put any credence in a left wing article in a left wing newspaper about what a left wing president "might" do. Obama hates the Brits in any event. He has no notion of "history".

We'll still sell stuff to Europe, and they to us. People also conveniently forget about the British Commonwealth. Also there's the BRICS countries - basically anyone and everyone, same as now.

I expect to see loads of scare stories like this in the run up to the next elections. UKIP has the establishment very worried.

Maybe Barry O'Bama's a bit peeved because 'US officials say that the White House is particularly perplexed because Britain played a key role in persuading Obama to stake significant political capital on the ambitious transatlantic partnership. If it is successful it could be the biggest trade and investment deal in history, encompassing half the world's GDP and a third of its trade.

[BlasterBates]

Can anyone explain what Switzerland has an advantage it has that is not in the EU.

Just to recap.

1) It contributes to the EU budget
2) There is free movement of EU people with the same limited options that other EU countries have (eg until recently Germany had restrictions on Eastern European).
3) in Schengen, no passport control
4) Has adopted the Social Chapter
5) has pegged it´s currency to the Euro and has recently bought billions of Eurobonds
6) Has agreed to all the financial regulation.

As a note it has a very generous social security system, and huge number of asylum seekers/foreigners generally.

Having lived there I found Switzerland to be an incredibly bureaucratic.

What "red tape" is going to be cut when the UK leaves the EU. If you have a company what won´t you need to do that you have to do now because of no "Brussels red tape"?

I just wonder because everyone argues we´ll be "free of Brussels". In what way will this change the daily bureacracy of a company doing business?

[DodgyAgent]

Can anyone explain what Switzerland has an advantage it has that is not in the EU.

Just to recap.

1) It contributes to the EU budget
2) There is free movement of EU people with the same limited options that other EU countries have (eg until recently Germany had restrictions on Eastern European).
3) in Schengen, no passport control
4) Has adopted the Social Chapter
5) has pegged it´s currency to the Euro and has recently bought billions of Eurobonds
6) Has agreed to all the financial regulation.

As a note it has a very generous social security system, and huge number of asylum seekers/foreigners generally.

Having lived there I found Switzerland to be an incredibly bureaucratic.

What "red tape" is going to be cut when the UK leaves the EU. If you have a company what won´t you need to do that you have to do now because of no "Brussels red tape"?

I just wonder because everyone argues we´ll be "free of Brussels". In what way will this change the daily bureacracy of a company doing business?

The point is that Switzerland can cherry pick whatever it wants out of the EU.

[Mich the Tester]

Can anyone explain what Switzerland has an advantage it has that is not in the EU.

Just to recap.

1) It contributes to the EU budget
2) There is free movement of EU people with the same limited options that other EU countries have (eg until recently Germany had restrictions on Eastern European).
3) in Schengen, no passport control
4) Has adopted the Social Chapter
5) has pegged it´s currency to the Euro and has recently bought billions of Eurobonds
6) Has agreed to all the financial regulation.

As a note it has a very generous social security system, and huge number of asylum seekers/foreigners generally.

Having lived there I found Switzerland to be an incredibly bureaucratic.

What "red tape" is going to be cut when the UK leaves the EU. If you have a company what won´t you need to do that you have to do now because of no "Brussels red tape"?

I just wonder because everyone argues we´ll be "free of Brussels". In what way will this change the daily bureacracy of a company doing business?

Because Switzerland is affected by and pretty much dictated to by the EU, but doesn't have any say in the matter.

[Mich the Tester]

The point is that Switzerland can cherry pick whatever it wants out of the EU.

No it can't. It's been bullied by the EU into signing agreements that undermine its sovereignty, under threat of being shut out of EU trade.

[BlasterBates]

The point is that Switzerland can cherry pick whatever it wants out of the EU.

Switzerland has Schengen but we don´t. Isn´t that cherry picking? i.e. the UK has decided not to adopt Schengen.Isn´t not being in the Euro also cherry picking?

That´s a pretty major opt out.

If you recall we opted out of the Social Chapter but the British government changed it´s mind. I can´t imagine it being a huge obstacle to opting out again.