Woolwich Incident

[DodgyAgent]

[QUOTE=NorthWestPerm2Contr;1749841

I genuinely believe that people like Jesus, Moses and Noah were from God and the fact they all point to the same source is evidence enough for me. All the prophets of God over the centuries and millennia pointed to the same source - nothing short of a miracle in itself to me.....[/QUOTE]

Where did Johnny Wilkinson come from then?

[sasguru]

Any evidence presented will not, to you, indicate the presence of any supernatural being.

On the contrary, I would use Sherlock Holmes* dictum (paraphrasing): "...once you have ruled out all other possibilities, what is left must be truth".
The problem with people of faith is that they don't go through the "ruling out all other possibilities" stage, by which all miracles might be explained. Most of those possibilities relate to the peculiar psychology of human beings.
I would be grateful to have any purported evidence for miraclesthat you have

*Yes I know he doesn't exist, although I once mischeviously gave instructions to an Italian tourist who asked me where 22b Baker St. was.

[DimPrawn]

On the contrary, I would use Sherlock Holmes* dictum (paraphrasing): "...once you have ruled out all other possibilities, what is left must be truth".
The problem with people of faith is that they don't go through the "ruling out all other possibilities" stage, by which all miracles might be explained. Most of those possibilities relate to the peculiar psychology of human beings.
I would be grateful to have any purported evidence for miraclesthat you have

*Yes I know he doesn't exist, although I once mischeviously gave instructions to an Italian tourist who asked me where 22b Baker St. was.

Okay explain this



and this



and this

[NorthWestPerm2Contr]

Even if there are no verifiable (to your satisfaction) accounts, what does that prove? Do you have a statistical breakdown of verified miracles that show that God has a bias towards healing a particular group of people? No. Because you don't believe that there are any miracles, therefore God doesn't do any healing, therefore there can be no verified miracles of healing.

There have been claims of amputees growing limbs back - quite a famous one here . The implication that Christians don't claim this particular kind of regenerative miracle is not based on fact.

The whole question is a red herring. Most believers don't believe on the basis of miracles, and even if a man came back to life after being dead for three days, and was seen by hundreds of people, confirmed sceptics still wouldn't believe. The idea of miracles is not a realistic proposition to them - they've already rejected the possibility.

Very interesting point and I agree with that - The idea of a believer is he/she believes before, during, after miracles have occurred - their faith is unshakable . That is not to say that the faith should be blind and without reason - on the contrary, the believer should have arrived at that point due to reason and logic.

[d000hg]

Impressive, this God bloke.
Seems to have his limits though, doesn't seem able to grow amputees limbs back.

Um, why the obsession with amputees in the first place? And seems a poor argument... it'd be like me showing I could transmute copper to gold and you saying "you're tulip, you can't do platinum".

You would not accept anyone who claimed they were healed anyway so it seems a rather pointless argument about which things are or are not healed.

You would only, presumably, accept as reliable reports from secular sources who are not "brainwashed". But it would be pretty likely a doctor who was confronted with a genuine miracle would convert and then no longer be "reliable".

[sasguru]

Okay explain this

Indeed that is truly remarkable and I would say it's a miracle, in the absence of any human intervention that caused a face to appear on a bit of toast: a mould say or food dye

[NorthWestPerm2Contr]

Okay explain this



and this



and this

I find the first one quite interesting - that does some unlikely but still possible in terms of it being a completely accidental event. When you take things up to the scale of the universe, the laws on physics, very existence itself, at that point I'd say there was no chance of it being an accident - or whatever chance there may be of it being an accident, not worth betting on!

[Mich the Tester]

Okay explain this

Jesus Toasters

[sasguru]

Um, why the obsession with amputees in the first place?".

It's probably obvious to anyone but you :

Changing a stump to a limb is physical, not something anyone can fake, or a malady that may be psychosomatic rather than physical.

The fact that none of you believers can point to any credible case is telling.

[sasguru]

Jesus Toasters

"The novelty gift that moves in mysterious ways"