Left vs right - the unfillable gulf

[Mich the Tester]

Oh - I think you might want to consider the effects of Globalisation on the bottom 90% of the population.

I have. That's why I feel they should have the freedom to move and find a better deal somewhere else. Actually, going on the evidence of the period before immigration controls, most probably wouldn't, but I believe they should have that freedom of choice if we're going to continue giving businesses the freedom to move around getting the cheapest labour and then selling their products and services to the best paying customers. The problem, it seems to me, is that globalisation has given more freedom to capital and the holders of capital, while freedom has been taken away from those who hold little or no capital.

[MadDawg]

Globalisation is a metonym for imperialism - but one which masquerades as an egalitarian gesture.

[Mich the Tester]

Globalisation is a metonym for imperialism

As it stands right now, yes, and that's precisely my point.

[vetran]

all of us can and some do sell their labour or products anywhere in the world. It is becoming more common.

However the majority of peoples finances are anchored in one country, if there is inflation and wage erosion in a country its difficult to maintain a reasonable standard of living.

everyone moving to the UK will just result in wages going through the floor, once they start to raise as they are in India the vultures will move to another country or we will import more. There will be flood & drought alternately.

[MarillionFan]

Says it all really...

Lefties are limp wristed shandy drinkers...& yes it's in the DM

And more likely to be kiddy fiddlers according to a recent poll result I just made up.

[doodab]

on eBay I can buy goods direct from a chinese supplier, I suspect many are individuals.

That isn't a free market, those goods are subject to import duties that those from a European supplier wouldn't attract. The fact that you aren't paying them makes you a tax dodger, not the beneficiary of a free market.

One thing we can take from this is that the mighty interweb has made enforcement of current barriers to trade, import duties and consumption taxes rather difficult.

[Mich the Tester]

everyone moving to the UK will just result in wages going through the floor, once they start to raise as they are in India the vultures will move to another country or we will import more. There will be flood & drought alternately.

Why do you think everyone will move to the UK? What makes the UK so special that 7 billion other people would want to live there? Most don't.

Or are you suggesting that markets for goods and services should be restricted just as the market for labour, to prevent 'vultures' moving to another country?

[xoggoth]

on eBay I can buy goods direct from a chinese supplier, I suspect many are individuals.
That isn't a free market, those goods are subject to import duties that those from a European supplier wouldn't attract.

Those that are not smuggled in or fakes. You don't know a lot about China do you? I might agree with arguments in favour of the free market if it was a reciprocal thing or if all those taking advantage of it were honest people but it isn't and they aren't. The levels of crime associated with the developing world and those from it are enormous. Just look at Chinese counterfeiting:

BBC News - EU reports growth in fake goods from China

An EU report says 64% of fake or pirated goods seized in the 27-nation bloc last year came from China - a 10% increase on 2008.
BBC News - EU reports growth in fake goods from China

PS Seriously I would be very careful what you buy on eBay from any Chinese. Watch the BBC's Fake Britain or take a look at the Electrical Safety Councils product recall pages. All the really dangerous stuff is from China.

http://www.esc.org.uk/recall/

[vetran]

Why do you think everyone will move to the UK? What makes the UK so special that 7 billion other people would want to live there? Most don't.

Or are you suggesting that markets for goods and services should be restricted just as the market for labour, to prevent 'vultures' moving to another country?

There are a number of pull factors that would make it a popular destination.

Free Healthcare
not at war seriously affecting the general population.
higher than average lifestyle (we may moan about it but compared to Somalia we life a darn nice life.)
etc.

people are willing to hang on to jet landing gear to get here, why do you think it won't be a popular destination?

[Mich the Tester]

There are a number of pull factors that would make it a popular destination.

Free Healthcare
not at war seriously affecting the general population.
higher than average lifestyle (we may moan about it but compared to Somalia we life a darn nice life.)
etc.

people are willing to hang on to jet landing gear to get here, why do you think it won't be a popular destination?

It would, but there are lots of potentially more popular destinations. I'm not saying Britain should open its borders unilaterally, that would be silly, but I think it could start convincing other countries to put an end to the trend toward 'fortress Europe', if that is the British government really does believe in concepts like free markets. I don't believe it does. I think the trend should be toward opening up borders and barriers to migration, just as the trend has been to open up trade. At the moment, that trend seems to be the other way.