Taxes - what taxes

[AtW]

Low taxation does generate more tax.

Why would Starbucks pay even 10% corp tax if they can avoid paying it completely by shifting profits to 0% tax heaven?

[d000hg]

Would we care if Sky or some tulip coffee franchise fooked off?

Answer.

No.

Starbucks... people would be sad but there are plenty of other coffee chains. If Sky left that's a bit of an issue

And anyone who says Starbucks can't turn a profit charging £3 for a cup of coffee is a cretin.

Apart from the fact they run as a franchise model, you only have to look how fast they are expanding to realise they could quite easily not make a profit - if you bill £600/day but are hiring half a dozen Bobs to build your plan B you could also be making no profit

[AtW]

Starbucks... people would be sad but there are plenty of other coffee chains. If Sky left that's a bit of an issue

Where would Sky go?

Other markets already have established players, they got nowhere to go and if corp tax is too taxing on their profits then they should bid a bit less for EPL rights.

[VectraMan]

Why not?

There is pretty decent dividend tax credit, so it's not like it's double tax on same money.

So you have two taxes that raise the same money as one tax? How does that make sense?

I never understand how the great unwashed have come to have such dislike of business, when it's business that provides the jobs and makes it possible for all of us to eat. "Corporations should pay their fair share of tax" - well what's a fair share for a corporation? It's not a person, yet people seem to look at them with envy and how they pay "far less tax than the rest of us". But that's like complaining that you pay more tax than a grapefruit. There's no connection.

Tax the people that earn money from companies, and if the company wants to retain funds to ensure its long term stability and to safeguard the jobs of its employees rather than making its shareholders rich, then the government should be saying "well done", not "give us 24% or else".

[doodab]

if you bill £600/day but are hiring half a dozen Bobs to build your plan B you could also be making no profit

Could be making a horrid mess though...

[AtW]

So you have two taxes that raise the same money as one tax? How does that make sense?

Foreign owners don't pay income tax here, it's only right that firms that generate them profits from UK pay some contribution to the upkeep of society here that enabled them to make profits in the first place.

"Corporations should pay their fair share of tax" - well what's a fair share for a corporation?

Current rate of corp tax on true profits made in UK.

Tax the people that earn money from companies, and if the company wants to retain funds to ensure its long term stability and to safeguard the jobs of its employees rather than making its shareholders rich, then the government should be saying "well done", not "give us 24% or else".

Now that I fully agree with - right now it's scandalous situation that company has to pay corp tax on money that it does not actually distribute to shareholders - retained profits up to certain level (say 2-3 years operations) should not be corp taxed.

[VectraMan]

Foreign owners don't pay income tax here, it's only right that firms that generate them profits from UK pay some contribution to the upkeep of society here that enabled them to make profits in the first place.

Like I said, I would say if overseas investors put money into UK business it's not unreasonable that they get the rewards without paying UK tax. Again it's a question of short term (money for HMRC) vs long term (encouraging investment). I agree that's contentious though.

But certainly for the likes of us (small companies with only UK based shareholders) getting rid of CT would save a lot of pain, paperwork, and raise the same amount of money. It's a complete no brainer.

[AtW]

Like I said, I would say if overseas investors put money into UK business it's not unreasonable that they get the rewards without paying UK tax.

No, that would be totally unreasonable if they get profit from UK's society without paying tax here! Don't want to keep 80% of profits to yourself? The fook off somewhere else like USA where you'd have to pay 35% corp tax.

But certainly for the likes of us (small companies with only UK based shareholders) getting rid of CT would save a lot of pain, paperwork, and raise the same amount of money. It's a complete no brainer.

That will never happen because it would just make it a legal income tax dodge vehicle.

[doodab]

Like I said, I would say if overseas investors put money into UK business it's not unreasonable that they get the rewards without paying UK tax.

It's not unreasonable that they pay for the infrastructure, security, legal system that they use either.

Again it's a question of short term (money for HMRC) vs long term (encouraging investment). I agree that's contentious though.

Does it discourage investment? Really? If someone says you can make £100 billion but you have to give £30 billion as tax do you really think "**** it, why bother?" or do you think "wahey, £70 billion quid!"

Plus of course by taxing employment rather than profit you discourage employment and drive up wages because taxes on the individual must be higher to make the same tax take, and you remove any opportunity to offer tax breaks for investment or offset losses against tax, which would probably reduce risky investments such as R&D. In fact you could argue that the higher corporation tax is the more attractive it is to invest rather than take profits.

[DodgyAgent]

Foreign owners don't pay income tax here, it's only right that firms that generate them profits from UK pay some contribution to the upkeep of society here that enabled them to make profits in the first place.



Current rate of corp tax on true profits made in UK.



Now that I fully agree with - right now it's scandalous situation that company has to pay corp tax on money that it does not actually distribute to shareholders - retained profits up to certain level (say 2-3 years operations) should not be corp taxed.

Rather than get all worked up about it I think you might like to consider what happens when the government gets hold of the money and what happens when the company keeps it.