I'm not completely convinced it's a good idea to leave Europe

[sasguru]

US is seeing energy prices plummeting due to fracking against which world including German manufacturing cannot compete as our energy costs are on an upward trajectory.
So the US may see a manufacturing resurgence and a corresponding uplift in the economy

Firstly, fracking has been vastly overrated as an energy source - it's the journalists' idea du jour.

Secondly, the US already has a cost advantage compared with Germany and has had for years but still cannot compete in manufacturing - this is because the Germans are not competing on cost but on quality.

Thirdly the US economy (and the Uk) is inefficient* in that capital is allocated to make more capital through arcane financial instruments rather than to make capital through making stuff that helps with the balance of payments. It's the way the economies have been set up that ensures their long-term decline.

*depending on your point of view. If you have loads of capital it is efficient for you, but not for the country as a whole.

[Old Hack]

Firstly, fracking has been vastly overrated as an energy source - it's the journalists' idea du jour.

Secondly, the US already has a cost advantage compared with Germany and has had for years but still cannot compete in manufacturing - this is because the Germans are not competing on cost but on quality.

Thirdly the US economy (and the Uk) is inefficient* in that capital is allocated to make more capital through arcane financial instruments rather than to make capital through making stuff that helps with the balance of payments. It's the way the economies have been set up that ensures their long-term decline.

*depending on your point of view. If you have loads of capital it is efficient for you, but not for the country as a whole.

No idea why you're mixing your terms, but it is idée du jour - If you are going to use these terms, be the intellect you purport to be and use them correctly please.

As for fracking: a lot of people are making a lot of money on the back of it in the States and it has driven down the wholesale cost of natural gas, itself a good thing.

[sasguru]

No idea why you're mixing your terms, but it is idée du jour - If you are going to use these terms, be the intellect you purport to be and use them correctly please.
.

"An untelligent pedant always confuses form and function."

Kant.

[DimPrawn]

"An untelligent pedant always confuses form and function."

Kant.

****

[eek]

No idea why you're mixing your terms, but it is idée du jour - If you are going to use these terms, be the intellect you purport to be and use them correctly please.

As for fracking: a lot of people are making a lot of money on the back of it in the States and it has driven down the wholesale cost of natural gas, itself a good thing.

Fracking has not just driven down the cost of gas, its decimated it and removed a large amount of money that would otherwise have been invested in renewables.

Whether that's a good thing or not I'm not 100% sure but some major renewable production investments have been canned because of it.

[Old Hack]

"An untelligent pedant always confuses form and function."

Kant.

No, an unintelligent pedant tries to make himself appear clever by using terms that appear correct, but aren't.

Koont.

[sasguru]

Anyhow we should be exporting high tech stuff to the new superpowers in Asia and more trade with Africa too.

.

Completely agree. But do we make enough high tech stuff to export (given that our exports are 1/3 Germany's by value) and how will coming out of Europe make this better, since there are many companies co-operating technically with European ones, especialy in Aerospace?

[Old Hack]

Fracking has not just driven down the cost of gas, its decimated it and removed a large amount of money that would otherwise have been invested in renewables.

Whether that's a good thing or not I'm not 100% sure but some major renewable production investments have been canned because of it.

One of the reasons we've heavily invested in renewables, was because we could foresee the Russians holding the rest of Western Europe ransom over Gas. Frackings removed it, for now, but we're still going to be heavily investing in renewables when we move.

[sasguru]

No, an unintelligent pedant tries to make himself appear clever by using terms that appear correct, but aren't.

Koont.

So you're claiming you're more intelligent than Kant?

[Old Hack]

So you're claiming you're more intelligent than Kant?

No, just that I think you're a gormless Koont.