Wales v England

[Doggy Styles]

Which attitude is why England will never be a world class team.

Never? Did I imagine the 2000s?

As far as England yesterday are concerned, sh1t happens. Wales lost seven in a row recently, that was sh1t happening as well.

[malvolio]

Never? Did I imagine the 2000s?

As far as England yesterday are concerned, sh1t happens. Wales lost seven in a row recently, that was sh1t happening as well.

Yes, a classic case of England winning by killing every game and sticking to a rigid grind-up-the-middle and kick when we can approach. I've heard Woodward talk on how he won the World Cup. Very little of what he said touched on playing rugby.

But hey, it's a different game, played diffefently and demanding different skills rather than brute force at the front (something Wales have always lacked until very recently). Woodward's team would go nowhere if they were playing that game today.

[Pondlife]

Rough as 50 bears today. But looking towards the positives there's a neatly wrapped bag of twenties on my bedside table which means I ended up in the casino.

Yesterday a seagull shat on my shoulder 10 mins before kick off so it was bound to be a good day.

[Mich the Tester]

Rough as 50 bears today. But looking towards the positives there's a neatly wrapped bag of twenties on my bedside table which means I ended up in the casino.

Yesterday a seagull shat on my shoulder 10 mins before kick off so it was bound to be a good day.

At least someone enjoyed himself!

Back to scrums;

I played back row mostly, but as a utility forward very often had to step into the second row to fill in for injury; also, despite being a bit too short for a 2nd row at 6’1”, I had a good back and legs so I could shove with the best. I only played front row in 10s, but got some insights into what goes on there. Unlike most modern refs I have been in some tier 1 and tier 2 level scrums, even though that was about 10 years ago now, and this is what I can tell you about it. I think the forces are now probably even greater than in the past;

Here’s what happens in the crouch-touch-collapse routine. First we all bind, and get into the crouch, thinking about straight body positioning and head up to keep your back straight; any minor adjustments can quickly be made in the binding. Up to now it’s all fairly relaxed and easy, but now we go into the set position. In that position, picture a 100 metre runner at the start of a race when the starter calls ‘set’, or a weightlifter preparing for the lift; every muscle is tensed. Many players use a valsalva method, exhaling hard while holding the breath in (clumsy description I know), to raise blood pressure to give a maximum force. Adrenaline is rushing through you like mad. At the same time you’re concentrating on putting all your force (anything like 2 kilowatts) into a split second of power, and then the push will come. You cannot hold that position for long; even though you’re conscious of the ref’s calls, your body is primed to release all the power you’ve spent years building up in a split second. So when a ref takes a long time over the calls, like Wayne Barnes’ routine of ‘crouch - have a cup of tea – set – have a biscuit – engage’, you don’t engage on his command. You just go, and perhaps surprisingly, almost all explosive athletes will go at about the same time to within a tenth of a second. That’s why there are so many false starts in sprinting and why it’s a real skill to start races effectively.

Then we have the hit; you exhale and push out every last bit of power; if it’s 99.9% good instead of 100% you feel a big jolt in your spine as you hit and your feet can be momentarily unweighted; your body reacts automatically by moving one or both feet sideways to keep you upright, and that’s where the problem starts; at this point there’s no way to know whether you are pushing absolutely straight as your head is stuck between two blokes’ arses (or for the front row, between two blokes’ heads) and you’re momentarily disoriented, so any ‘straight push’ is only a best effort. You’re tensing up your back and your abdominal muscles to hold the forces that are twisting you one way or the other, or in some cases twisting your legs one way, your back the other and your head back to where your legs want to go. If the forces behind the front rows are just bit off staight then the front row have a problem; their necks are being twisted into nasty positions while their spine is being compressed AND their necks are turning; very understandable when Richard Hibbard popped his head up out of the scrum yesterday, because it’s the only defence he had against serious injury. Scrums that are going wrong are a terrifying experience because there is no escape except to pop up or sideways out of it, unless of course it collapses at which time those front row forwards who believe in a god might just say a very quick prayer, and second rows need to react by stopping the push immediately for the sake of the front row’s health. Now the scrum collapses and despite our best efforts we have to wait and see who’s going to be blamed. Some refs will listen to pack leaders to understand what the problem is; some idiots just make a call without knowing what’s going on. Now either you get a random penalty award or the whole ritual starts all over again.

In short, do what the Geech says; get rid of the ‘hit’ and watch how players are bound so the forces will be straight instead of all over the place, and then we’ll have more ball in play, less collapsed scrums and a lot more running rugby. (and on current form Wales would still smash England)

[oracleslave]

Rough as 50 bears today. But looking towards the positives there's a neatly wrapped bag of twenties on my bedside table which means I ended up in the casino.

Yesterday a seagull shat on my shoulder 10 mins before kick off so it was bound to be a good day.

sounds familiar!

[malvolio]

DEffo agree with Geech, and had the same thought myself: don't have the hit, build the scrum from the front row properly bound then the seconds then the back three so the thing is stationary before play starts.

Far too simple, it will never catch on.

[Netraider]

In short, do what the Geech says; get rid of the ‘hit’ and watch how players are bound so the forces will be straight instead of all over the place

It sounds like its being trialled in the Southern Hemisphere already.

Linky

[malvolio]

It sounds like its being trialled in the Southern Hemisphere already.

Linky

Kinda. Still requires an engagement on "Set" and is only looking to reduce the force of it. The original rules of scrum were that it be stable before the ball is fed in. Since the engagement doesn't have any value of itself, other than a way to bully the other team, why not try a standing start.

You never know, we may even go back to hooking*...









*Guess where I used to play....

[Doggy Styles]

Yes, a classic case of England winning by killing every game and sticking to a rigid grind-up-the-middle and kick when we can approach. I've heard Woodward talk on how he won the World Cup. Very little of what he said touched on playing rugby.

But hey, it's a different game, played diffefently and demanding different skills rather than brute force at the front (something Wales have always lacked until very recently). Woodward's team would go nowhere if they were playing that game today.

Some of the welsh hate what happened in 2003, don't they!

[malvolio]

Some of the Welsh hate what happened in 2003, don't they!

Yeah well, we'll leave aside the late 60s, the 70s, most of the 90s, and the last three years then, will we?

What the Welsh hate is not the English winning, but the English tellng everyone how great they are at winning. Bit like the kickballers and 1966...