Europe

[darmstadt]

Dont we will be there to chuck the dictators out and rescue the population of Europe from work camps and gas chambers

I think that comment is really below someone who occasionally comes across as intelligent, don't you?

[DodgyAgent]

I think that comment is really below someone who occasionally comes across as intelligent, don't you?

It is perfectly serious. What people like you seem to ignore from history is how the gathering of power without democratic accountability is like a snowball. Dictatorships grow in times of economic hardship. People are desperate and will support anyone who shows leadership even if it means sacrificing freedoms. That is exactly what is happening now.
What you have talked about in your cliche ridden list is an Orwellian summary of so called benefits (I would prefer to call it propoganda). Just because some of these benefits may be virtuous and seemingly necessary it is automatically assumed that everything that this growing unaccountable self serving bureaucracy does is good for us. Most of us in the UK dont buy this. Clearly the Germans have not learnt their lessons of the past if they did they would put a stop to the pooling of sovereignty amongst nation states.- Which is happening because the EU has destroyed the economies of most of Europe.
It is bad enough now for the "small person" to be heard within our existing democratic system, what chance do any of us have if we are controlled from a centralised bureaucracy from Brussels? Even if Britain is a major power.
the EU accounts have never been signed off and they forbid their ministers from criticising the European Parliament. This may not matter too much but unless they are broken up now and have their power stripped away from them their prescence and influence will only grow.
My business imports skilled workers from all over Europe and it stands to gain hugely by for example the free movement of labour and a single currency.I would sacrifice this to prevent the onslaught of a totalitarian state.
Because people like you (useful idiots if you like) cannot argue these points you are left smearing those who do not believe in your precious superstate with your ridiculous cliches and stupid cartoons along with cries of xenophobia. it is all you can do.
So my point about concentration camps is a serious one.
A free trading area with common standards of safety and training certifications may be, but the rest of it you and your bureaucrat friends who have never had a proper job in their lives can keep it.

[socialworker]

""A free trading area with common standards of safety and training certifications may be, but the rest of it you and your bureaucrat friends who have never had a proper job in their lives can keep it."

Otherwise an interesting argument but why do people always bring out this "your job is not a proper job" insult? what is your definition of a proper job? Aren't you a little vulnerable if we start playing those games?

[DodgyAgent]

""A free trading area with common standards of safety and training certifications may be, but the rest of it you and your bureaucrat friends who have never had a proper job in their lives can keep it."

Otherwise an interesting argument but why do people always bring out this "your job is not a proper job" insult? what is your definition of a proper job? Aren't you a little vulnerable if we start playing those games?

Fair comment and I apologise for my throw away cliche. Governments are over populated with people that have never had to meet a payroll each month or create wealth. Or even been self employed. They are populated by serial "jobbers" from public services who have no idea how the money that pays their wages is generated.

As they move further up their ivory tower they feel a sense of entitlement that the rest of the world exists to work in order to pay them. Remove democratic accountability and they will build structures, propoganda machines and laws, that ultimately serve themselves.

Evidence all the liberal policies coming out of the EU such as the working time directive.

[BlasterBates]

I just spent a few years in Switzerland and they´re constantly having to agree to new directives from Brussels, so it won´t go away.

Switzerland now has no passport control. Can´t imagine Eurosceptics being happy with that, and they´re newspapers are also full of the debate on Bulgarians and Romanians. They´ve bought billions of Eurobonds since the crisis started, which means they´re also propping up the Euro. They´re being dictated to by both the US and the EU with regards to their banking sector. If they were in the EU they could stick two fingers up at the US, as Austria do.

Leaving the EU will make hardly any real difference, there are now hundreds of thousands of Britons living throughout the EU so they can´t suddenly start introducing visa regulations. Most of the Asian car manufacturers who now probably represent the biggest commercial sector second to the city, are there because we´re in the EU, and Eurobond trading in the City is hugely important.

Both Switzerland and Norway do contribute to the EU budget so even if the UK left they´ll still end up funding the bureacrats in Brussels. Of course all the UK bureacrats will have to leave and find new jobs.

Though I suspect that in any deal that because the UK is a larger country it would ask to have a seat in Brussels as a participating observer, and the UK Eurocrats would be required in London instead of Brussels to sift through the huge amount of new policies.

Exiting the EU would be simply be symbolic.

[DodgyAgent]

I just spent a few years in Switzerland and they´re constantly having to agree to new directives from Brussels, so it won´t go away.

Switzerland now has no passport control. Can´t imagine Eurosceptics being happy with that, and they´re newspapers are also full of the debate on Bulgarians and Romanians. They´ve bought billions of Eurobonds since the crisis started, which means they´re also propping up the Euro. They´re being dictated to by both the US and the EU with regards to their banking sector. If they were in the EU they could stick two fingers up at the US, as Austria do.

Leaving the EU will make hardly any real difference, there are now hundreds of thousands of Britons living throughout the EU so they can´t suddenly start introducing visa regulations. Most of the Asian car manufacturers who now probably represent the biggest commercial sector second to the city, are there because we´re in the EU, and Eurobond trading in the City is hugely important.

Both Switzerland and Norway do contribute to the EU budget so even if the UK left they´ll still end up funding the bureacrats in Brussels. Of course all the UK bureacrats will have to leave and find new jobs.

Though I suspect that in any deal that because the UK is a larger country it would ask to have a seat in Brussels as a participating observer, and the UK Eurocrats would be required in London instead of Brussels to sift through the huge amount of new policies.

Exiting the EU would be simply be symbolic.

In many areas leaving the EU would indeed be symbolic which is a good thing. The UK is far far bigger than Norway and Switzerland and we would always have the right to decide what we do. Switzerland and Norway accede to these EU directives because they decide that it is in their overall interests to do so and that is the key.

[formant]

The UK is far far bigger than Norway and Switzerland and we would always have the right to decide what we do.

The UK is also far far poorer (compared per capita GDPs lately?). I'm not sure what you mean by 'far far bigger', that would make us better off than Norway or Switzerland. Norway and Switzerland aren't in the EU because they can easily afford not to be. We're not in that position.

But it's all rainbows and kittens for you anyway. *shrug*

Anyway, if we're so powerful, why don't we currently have more say within the EU?

[Robinho]

Of course we can afford not to be.

Silly suggestion.

[DodgyAgent]

The UK is also far far poorer (compared per capita GDPs lately?). I'm not sure what you mean by 'far far bigger', that would make us better off than Norway or Switzerland. Norway and Switzerland aren't in the EU because they can easily afford not to be. We're not in that position.

But it's all rainbows and kittens for you anyway. *shrug*

Anyway, if we're so powerful, why don't we currently have more say within the EU?

it is nothing to do with per capita it is to do with the overall size of the UK economy.

[BlasterBates]

It´s all theoretical anyway. Now the conservatives are now a split party they´ve no chance

UK Polling Report

It will be a Labour landslide.

The conservatives are now in exactly the same position Michael Foot was in the 1980´s. Completely unelectable.