Flat-rate State Pension - Opinions?

[RasputinDude]

My issue isn't so much that some people are losing out (some always do), but that some people are losing out solely to make up for those people who choose not to pay their own NI contributions.

Ah well, if they are losing out, all they need to do is re-train or re-locate to increase their income. Is that not so?

[Robinho]

The current points-based and employer-sponsored visa-system is already heavily skewed towards skilled workers - there's no such thing as simply letting just anyone in.

Yes i have a very strong belief that the pricing mechanism is far better at allocating resources than bureaucrats and lobbying and i think history has overwhelmingly shown that. Additionally this method generates revenue.

What you don't want is EU freeflow migration. Subject all EU citizens to current visa regulations and you'll find there'll be no need to also add an auction system.

First of all that is an assertion, and secondly, i am clearly arguing against extensive point based visa regulations. A criminal background check would be all that's necessary.

But that means leaving the EU, which to people like you seems like a brilliant idea.

Well, it's only that if you disregard a whole lot of other issues an EU exit would bring about, such as the reintroduction of customs duties.

There's no reason why we'd have to reintroduce duties.

Switzerland does just fine, no reason why we can't.

The EU has long overgrown it's purpose.

Anyway we're (you're) drifting from the point now.

But at least you have stopped arguing against the system now and are instead arguing about EU in or out, so i will take that as a sign that you have accepted the auction system is sound.

[formant]

There's no reason why we'd have to reintroduce duties.

"We" wouldn't. The countries that "we" would p-iss off with the costly legal hassle of setting a so far non-existent precedent of leaving the EU - yeah, they probably would.

Switzerland does just fine, no reason why we can't.

See above. If you assume that we can "just" leave the EU and "simply" become part of the EEA, feel free, but that's just not how these things work.

But at least you have stopped arguing against the system now and are instead arguing about EU in or out, so i will take that as a sign that you have accepted the auction system is sound.

If that would finally make you shut up, assume away. Add that to your long list of delusions and enjoy the thought.

[formant]

Ah well, if they are losing out, all they need to do is re-train or re-locate to increase their income. Is that not so?

Could do, if their income was no longer worthwhile (like that of your poor electrician). As that wouldn't be the case, they're within their rights to instead just moan about being singled out to fund voluntary non-earners.

[Robinho]

"We" wouldn't. The countries that "we" would p-iss off with the costly legal hassle of setting a so far non-existent precedent of leaving the EU - yeah, they probably would.

You're probably just assuming that countries are as juvenile and as scared to lose face as you are. I doubt they'd really care that much if we left, and i doubt they'd want to restrict trade between them and the 5th largest economy.

See above. If you assume that we can "just" leave the EU and "simply" become part of the EEA, feel free, but that's just not how these things work.

There's no reason why we can't leave, and there's no reason why we can't join the EEA.

Never the less, the above is drifting from the point as i have already mentioned.

If that would finally make you shut up, assume away. Add that to your long list of delusions and enjoy the thought.

I've been pretty patient to explain all the mechanics now and i've been pretty patient to answer all your objection. It would be nice if you just conceded that it's not a bad idea.

[formant]

I doubt they'd really care that much if we left, and i doubt they'd want to restrict trade between them and the 5th largest economy.

There's no reason why we can't leave, and there's no reason why we can't join the EEA.

I see European Policy is not your strong point. There's currently no provision for leaving the EU (or kicking anyone out for that matter), creating such a precedent is likely to take at least a decade, particularly if you're going to want to keep the "good bits". Joining the EEA is then a separate process, likely to take years. At the end of it, we'll have wasted a ton of our own as well as European money. Some contributing nations will wish to punitively reclaim these funds in customs duties thereafter.

I've been pretty patient to explain all the mechanics now and i've been pretty patient to answer all your objection. It would be nice if you just conceded that it's not a bad idea.

I don't even agree that it's necessary (what do you expect from a reasonably well-off EU migrant?), nor can I say it's a good idea. I don't subscribe to the idea that the UK has an 'immigration problem' at present. Germany has more immigration, a better welfare system (in case you were going to argue that immigrants just come here to sponge), and the healthier economy in comparison to the UK. Immigration can't be the dealbreaker here.

[Robinho]

There's no way in hell it'd take 10 years to leave the EU, that is a truly ridiculous statement and i can't honestly believe you have seriously suggested that.

But once again, the EU argument is irrelevent. And i would only really condone leaving the EU if we actually implemented a few policies to make this country competitive again, which we are currently restricted from doing but given our clueless leaders/electorate, we won't anyway.

I never said we have an immigration problem (there you go putting words in my mouth again). I said we have a potential population problem. We have far more immigration than Germany btw (more than 3 times the amount per capita).

[SueEllen]

There's no way in hell it'd take 10 years to leave the EU, that is a truly ridiculous statement and i can't honestly believe you have seriously suggested that.

But once again, the EU argument is irrelevent. And i would only really condone leaving the EU if we actually implemented a few policies to make this country competitive again, which we are currently restricted from doing but given our clueless leaders/electorate, we won't anyway.

I never said we have an immigration problem (there you go putting words in my mouth again). I said we have a potential population problem. We have far more immigration than Germany btw (more than 3 times the amount per capita).

What country has left the EU?

How much do Norway and Switzerland pay for not being in the EU?

Why do lots of Norwegian companies ensure they have an office somewhere like Sweden?

Why do car manufacturers like the UK?

[Robinho]

Greenland and Algeria if you must know.

[mudskipper]

Greenland and Algeria if you must know.

Algeria? I know the definition of Europe is somewhat flexible, but really?