The Living Wage

[gingerjedi]

What's the point in having a minimum wage then?

Enjoy...

The market you talk of is artificially skewed by cheap foreign labour, a true market wouldn't allow for a cheaper option.

The increasing wealth divide proves some people could pay a bit more for goods and services but as it is they don't need to, capitalism needs someone to exploit.

[doodab]

Germany does not have a minimum wage

It doesn't have a national minimum wage because it has hundreds of them, legally enforced under collective bargaining agreements

[rootsnall]

Nuliebor who supposedly represent the 'working classes' opened up immigration at the behest of their business backers in an attempt to keep down wages. Without the constant supply of overseas ( and mostly single ) workers who can just about survive on the minimum wage then unskilled wages would of risen considerably in the South East. It's a farcical situation to then pay a few million people outside the SE to sit on their ars*es doing nothing. It's tulip short termist government.

[Robinho]

You can sack them very easily. Also apprentices get paid very little.

The loss of money isn't in paying them it is actually getting them to do some work in the first place.

It's cheaper to employ someone who uses their common sense and has a work ethic and pay them slightly more, than 2 people who are useless.

Well then do that, nobody's forcing anyone to pay the lowest possible. Just the flexibility to allow employees to be paid a wage relative to their contributions.

You obviously haven't looked at economic figures.

The poor and average earners in the UK are actually worse of than 8 years ago. They have less disposable income, and food prices have gone up meaning that they have cut down on certain food.

That's because we're been residing on a bubble that's burst, and so far all the experts have come up with is to print money (which of course favours the wealthy). The long term trend is upwards.

All successful economies with a decent sized population force their residents to pay taxes. Most them a lot more than us.

Most countries don't actually. We pay a disgusting amount here, about 40% of all GDP. It should be about 15%.

A few other countries...

USA 26.9
Switzerland 29.4
Australia 30.8
Canada 32.2
New Zealand 34.5
South Korea 26.8
Japan 28.3

A couple of failed economies in there mind, but also some extremely strong ones too.

[Robinho]

The increasing wealth divide proves some people could pay a bit more for goods and services but as it is they don't need to, capitalism needs someone to exploit.

Capitalism doesn't exploit anyone. All capitalism is is a series of mutually beneficial voluntary transactions.

The wealth divide is nonsense too. Earning X amount more than someone doesn't mean your life is X times better. And you can only earn such an amount by providing more than that amount of value to someone else so you shouldn't be discouraged from doing so.

[DodgyAgent]

There is more to living in a society than the market.

.

True but markets are up there alongside oxygen

[DodgyAgent]

You can sack them very easily. Also apprentices get paid very little.

The loss of money isn't in paying them it is actually getting them to do some work in the first place.

It's cheaper to employ someone who uses their common sense and has a work ethic and pay them slightly more, than 2 people who are useless.


You obviously haven't looked at economic figures.

The poor and average earners in the UK are actually worse of than 8 years ago. They have less disposable income, and food prices have gone up meaning that they have cut down on certain food.


All successful economies with a decent sized population force their residents to pay taxes. Most them a lot more than us.

Have you ever run a business where you have to find enough money each month to meet the payroll?

No .. I thought not

[gingerjedi]

Capitalism doesn't exploit anyone. All capitalism is is a series of mutually beneficial voluntary transactions.

The wealth divide is nonsense too. Earning X amount more than someone doesn't mean your life is X times better. And you can only earn such an amount by providing more than that amount of value to someone else so you shouldn't be discouraged from doing so.

It looks as though you've been reading "The Wealth of Nations" whilst ignoring the bits about the importance of morality.

The ideal is nice but real life just isn't like that, are we not paying the price for greed and exploitation right now??

[SueEllen]

Most countries don't actually. We pay a disgusting amount here, about 40% of all GDP. It should be about 15%.

A few other countries...

USA 26.9
Switzerland 29.4
Australia 30.8
Canada 32.2
New Zealand 34.5
South Korea 26.8
Japan 28.3

A couple of failed economies in there mind, but also some extremely strong ones too.

Knowing people in some of those countries listed, the tax take may look lower but it doesn't include indirect taxes, wages and the cost of living.

For example in NZ lots of skilled workers earn less than their counterparts in the UK but the cost of living is the same.

Plus the way their tax laws are written you can't work as we do here.

[SueEllen]

Have you ever run a business where you have to find enough money each month to meet the payroll?

No .. I thought not

Yes I have.

Hence I will never employ anyone directly again.