On religion

[speling bee]

It's either directed or it's a result of random events. Evolution is the latter.

And SP, you're just copy-pasting your same old points about sorceresses and child-murder from the last time[s] we had this discussion You seem to have a bee (sorry for the pun) in your bonnet about this, if it's such a big deal why don't you stop making little soundbites and childish quips, and study the subject?

Evolution is not random events.

I do happen to think that mass infanticide is a big deal. Maybe that makes me plain crazy. You obviously don't think it's a big deal.

I don't think I'll be letting my kids near your god until they're old enough to make up their own mind.

[NotAllThere]

.... It's like people who think computers are magic...

Computers are magic. Quantum mechanics certainly is.

I do happen to think that mass infanticide is a big deal. Maybe that makes me plain crazy. You obviously don't think it's a big deal.

If you follow sasguru's approach it didn't happen, so why worry?

[speling bee]

Computers are magic. Quantum mechanics certainly is.
If you follow sasguru's approach it didn't happen, so why worry?

...because there are so many people who think it did happen and that it was a good thing and who base their belief system around the perpetrator.

[NotAllThere]

Evolution is not random.

Mutations are random. Evolution postulates that environmental pressures determine which mutations survive.

[NorthWestPerm2Contr]

Mutations are random. Evolution postulates that environmental pressures determine which mutations survive.

When I say random I mean that there is no purpose - the world as we know it has arrived by random process with no external intervention or guidance. So I stick by what I said earlier.

[NotAllThere]

...because there are so many people who think it did happen and that it was a good thing and who base their belief system around the perpetrator.

Well, if it helps, I don't think it was a good thing. Maybe God felt it wasn't a good thing. Maybe he felt it was necessary, but not good.

Actually, the question boils down to why does evil even exist, or If God exists, why does he permit evil. I have never seen a satisfactory answer to that. In my degree, I'm currently studying the Philosophy of Religion and this is one of the topics.

However, I do not think that the existence of evil predicates against the existence of a (good) God. YMMV.

[speling bee]

When I say random I mean that there is no purpose - the world as we know it has arrived by random process with no external intervention or guidance. So I stick by what I said earlier.

External intervention and random are not mutually exclusive. This is an improtant point as some fundamentalist Christians (no pointing the finger at anyone here) get this wrong when they state apply Hoyle's fallacy to evolution Hoyle's fallacy - RationalWiki

Here is a thought. Many of us will have enjoyed the Intelligent Falling parody of Intelligent Design. Intelligent falling - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

When I trip up, is it random which way I fall, or is there an external intervention or guidance?

The smart Christian money is on divinely guided evolution. God set up the universe. God gave the first spark of life and ensured that evolution would occur. God intervened from time to time, and gave humans free will. This is why evolution does not attempt to disprove God.

[speling bee]

Well, if it helps, I don't think it was a good thing. Maybe God felt it wasn't a good thing. Maybe he felt it was necessary, but not good.

Actually, the question boils down to why does evil even exist, or If God exists, why does he permit evil. I have never seen a satisfactory answer to that. In my degree, I'm currently studying the Philosophy of Religion and this is one of the topics.

However, I do not think that the existence of evil predicates against the existence of a (good) God. YMMV.

I have no problem with the idea of God existing alongside evil, just of God committing the evil deeds. Again, the smart Christian money relegates these these tales to human attempts to understand natural phenomena, rather than seeing them as historic records of God's actions.

[RasputinDude]

The idea of Evolution is to try and disprove God

It really isn't.

Evolution is simply a theory based on observations of the real world, it is not trying to prove or disprove the existence of God.

[mudskipper]

It seems to me that there's a number of variations you could subscribe to

1) There's no God
2) There is a God, but he's not 'active' - the clockmaker theory.
3) There is a God, but he's not perfect - we're his playthings and he's capricious and sometimes throws his toys out the pram (the Greeks never believed their gods were perfect)
4) There is a God, he's perfect, all wise and all powerful. When tulip happens it's part of his grand plan.

Most religions go with 4. I guess it's the safest option if you think your eternity might depend on keeping him happy.