On religion

[d000hg]

External intervention and random are not mutually exclusive
...
The smart Christian money is on divinely guided evolution. God set up the universe. God gave the first spark of life and ensured that evolution would occur. God intervened from time to time, and gave humans free will.

I personally feel this is most likely, however this is not evolution according to Darwinian theory. Evolutionists get all uppity if you talk about 'guided evolution' because random mutations are the very core of the theory.

I do happen to think that mass infanticide is a big deal. Maybe that makes me plain crazy. You obviously don't think it's a big deal.

I don't think I'll be letting my kids near your god until they're old enough to make up their own mind.

You're deliberately using emotionally charged topics and language to influence how people view the subject. I'm sure there is a fancy Latin name for this tactic in debates, does anyone know what it is called? It's exactly the same as how politicians always bring child pornography into any discussion on internet monitoring and censorship, so that disagreeing makes it look like you're in favour of child pornography or are not worried about it.

[MyUserName]

No. The difference between your son and God's son is that your son was created by you and your missus, whereas Jesus was begotten, having always existed in that relationship of Son to the Father.

But God can easily recreate Jesus absolutely perfectly with relevant memories etc as God is all powerful. I cannot do that with my son. It is clearly not the same relationship.

Jesus did die, as God and as Man. He is fully human and fully God. His body died, then whatever happens to that part of us that is us went to the place of the dead, separated from God.

I thought that God was immortal? How can he die as God if God is immortal.
If he died as both why is he still around?
Isn't the entire thing pointless as God can bring him back to life in any way he wants as God can do anything?

The Father and the Son were seperated by death.

But surely nothing can be separated from God as God can do anything.

The sacrifice was the son giving himself up to death on our behalf, and the Father giving up his only son up to death on our behalf.

God can create an infinite amount of 'sons' if he chose to. He could even bring Jesus back if he liked but also they both knew that Jesus would come back to life in a couple of days and rejoining his father in heaven so was it much of a sacrifice?

[d000hg]

But God can easily recreate Jesus absolutely perfectly with relevant memories etc as God is all powerful. I cannot do that with my son. It is clearly not the same relationship.

So if we could store your kid's memories on tape and clone him and implant those memories, it would be OK if the son died? Of course it wouldn't.

[MyUserName]

Some people like to use it like that.
Because they haven't got anything better to replace it and to question evolution is an excellent route for an academic to the dole queue. They're simply not convinced by the arguments of evolutionary biologists. Just look at the derision poured on Behe - he raised some important points that should have been addressed. It was just easier to attack him as a creationist in disguise than to tackle his arguments. Dismiss the man, and you don't have to address with the concerns - ever the way of the political system. And science is every bit as political as any other walk of life.

The point is that "evolution is true" is not the standpoint of many scientists - nor biologists.

Fwiw, I'm absolutely not a creationist.

Behe was an imbecile who was torn apart under fair questioning in a court case. All of the nonsense he published has been repeatedly disproved by numerous people.

If they have serious scientific questions which blow holes in evolution they would publish it. It would make them famous and rich - imagine all of the creationalists who would buy their books, pay to see their lectures, buy their autographs etc and that is without the acadmemic community who are likely to be amazed at these geniuses who managed to prove the entire scientific community wrong.

[MyUserName]

So if we could store your kid's memories on tape and clone him and implant those memories, it would be OK if the son died? Of course it wouldn't.

God could perfectly recreate his son so he was absolutely identitical in every possible way and would therefore be identifcal to the previous copy and exactly the same ... or are you saying that God is not all powerful?

[BrilloPad]

Can God create a rock so heavy he cannot lift it?

[Mich the Tester]

Can God create a rock so heavy he cannot lift it?

Yes, I made one this morning.

[speling bee]

I personally feel this is most likely, however this is not evolution according to Darwinian theory. Evolutionists get all uppity if you talk about 'guided evolution' because random mutations are the very core of the theory.

You're deliberately using emotionally charged topics and language to influence how people view the subject. I'm sure there is a fancy Latin name for this tactic in debates, does anyone know what it is called? It's exactly the same as how politicians always bring child pornography into any discussion on internet monitoring and censorship, so that disagreeing makes it look like you're in favour of child pornography or are not worried about it.

At a scientific level, guided evolution is a nonsense as there is no evidence for it. But as a faith position, it is fine, as it is not inconsistent with scientific evidence - it is impossible to disprove.

I am using an emotionally charged example as I rather think it matters. Take the nice Baptist minister who comes to saymy daughter's school at Harvest time. He has great things to say about people who lack access to clean water. But I think it matters whether he holds the view that there are some silly myths about God in the Old Testament, or that if God decides to kill a load of kids to prove his power, then that is God's business. If you don't think it matters, then I find that rather disturbing.

[speling bee]

Can God create a rock so heavy he cannot lift it?

It depends if you believe God exists inside the rules of logic or not.

If inside, then no.

If outside, then yes, and he can then lift it.

[NotAllThere]

But God ... of a sacrifice?

You have constructed a theological model which is quite different from the standard Christian theological model. Your model generates paradoxes and problems for you. Perhaps your axioms are suspect?