More evidence of global warming.

[d000hg]

What a pile of post-modernist crap.

But you ARE a post-modernist.

[BlasterBates]

Posted by IR35FanClub...
LOL....etc

Sounds like you'll be spending a fortune on a scheme that will never pay back.

Another alternative would be to burn pound notes in your stove.

[IR35FanClub]

Sounds like you'll be spending a fortune on a scheme that will never pay back.

Another alternative would be to burn pound notes in your stove.

Exactly - but I don't care. What is the payback on a 50" Plasma? Or Upgrading a Subaru Imprezza to Rally spec? Some people spend money on stuff that never has any sort of payback. Mine might... By my reckoning I might save money in the long run (on the heat storage system - not the automation system). But If I don't - I'll still be able to get the house heated if there's a gas shortage one winter. I'm stuffed if the electric goes as well. Although a genny hired from HSS would sort me out. Either that or by the time I get on to it - I might be able to tap into a used prius for a few Kw of standby power. I know most people aren't interesting in tinkering with electronics systems, but then they don't work in IT either.

[IR35FanClub]

I'm interested how you know something like that without a source to tell you. Are you an immortal with a 6th sense of measuring CO2 and a very good memory?

At last - someone has realised I am DOG. My nose is very sensitive to CO2 Levels. I was was born when man was still swinging around in the trees.

[IR35FanClub]

I'm interested how you know something like that without a source to tell you. Are you an immortal with a 6th sense of measuring CO2 and a very good memory?

Actually I'll be more serious... this is from one of the favoured sketpic sites so must be more accurate than one from a scientific site ...

Comparing CO2 in warm and cold periods in geologic history | Watts Up With That?

Since I meant in the last 40,000 years since we walked out of East Africa. I wasn't there to see it - so it may just be scientists to making it up to resolve racial tensions by saying we all have a common ancester. But I've been there and it gives you a feeling that you are home. Especially when you go to the Rift Valley.

Current as measured accurately levels are about to go ove 400ppm. CO2 Now | CO2 Home.

So we've gone from oscilating around 200-300ppm on hundreds of thousand year cycles, to a rapid increase to 400ppm.

That is undisputedly caused by burning stuff. They have wored out how much we have burned and what it would do to the atmospheric levels. And why it's not all still in the air.

So what we can all agree to argue on - is what is the effect of this. Did it cause the temperature rise? Well yes. Most likely after they've taken away all the other causes. Will this cause more extreme weather events, and economic losses. Most Probably. But I'll agree this is where evidence gets flaky as we are trying to predict the future based on past evidence. But as models get better, and older models have been show to be too optimistic compared to what has happened, you have to realise the cautions of the IPCC mean things could be worse than current consensus allows them to publish.

But as I've given arging around climate change, I'll take the arguing about how much should you spend to save money and how do you quantify the future savings. That's what , as someone who likes maths and technology I seem to be most suited to. So am probably heading out of IT into energy services so people don't get conned by companies selling any old tat as something that can save money.

[pjclarke]

WHS. We have a record of atmospheric CO2 concentrations trapped in ice cores going back around 800K years, during that time it oscillated in a band from around 180-300 ppm as ice ages came and went.

Then we came along....

[EternalOptimist]

You make an interesting point about the creationists (I am not one btw) ir35fanclub. They do indeed claim that evolution is an unproven theory and they are right.
How do you falsify the theory of evolution ? it's damned hard to think of an experiment that you could run that would falsify the theory.
The same with man made global warming. The true believers say that if temperatures stabilise for 15 years, the models are proven wrong. When the temperatures do , indeed, flat line for 16 years they say, no wait.. we meant 20 years. My guess is that they will learn their lesson and that they will stop making statements like this, pretty soon it will be, by the year 2100...........

as far as your efficiency hobby horse is concerned, good luck. There is a great need for good ideas and innovation and I wish you well.
Having said that, you need to pay attention to what is happening to energy prices in other countries.
In the USA they are falling fast as the country embraces new gas resources, In Germany they are rising fast as the country embraces a supersized green deal.

I have no idea which direction this country will take, but we would be mad not to follow the American lead. in my humble opinion

[EternalOptimist]

nice graphs ir35fanclub



they clearly show that the co2 concentrations come after the temperature spikes.

i.e. your own data shows that warming cause co2, and not the other way around

[EternalOptimist]

pj's too


hahahahahahahha
hooothoot hoot

co2 follows temperature.

must be a bit of out-gassing going on from the oceans . eh?

[pjclarke]

must be a bit of out-gassing going on from the oceans

Principally, yes. The glacial/interglacial cycles are caused by peturbations in Earth's orbit , but these are insufficent on their own to explain the change in temperatures. So in a warming phase the initial rise in temperatures, caused by the change in insolation from by the orbital shift, causes the release of CO2 from the oceans mainly, which enhances the greenhouse effect, which causes more CO2 which gives more warmth and so on until the orbital cycle goes into a cooling phase and the carbon gets sequestered back into its long term stores.

This all happens gradually over millenia; on this time scale the CO2 is a feedback rather than a forcing. But what happens when you short-circuit the natural cycle, dig up the carbon and release Gigatonnes of it into the atmosphere over a few decades, that we're about to discover ....