Hillsborough report

[d000hg]

Nope, just pointing out something I believe to be true. Never once said I was the one bullying.

You don't need to say it, you fell right into that role.

You were either the bully or more likely, the little coward who stood on the side applauding the bully out of fear that if they didn't try to fit in, they'd get it next. Actually that fits you down to a T on CUK as well... whenever there's some dispute you wait to see which side you can join with to get a few sneaky kicks in without having to standup on your own.

[Old Hack]

You don't need to say it, you fell right into that role.

You were either the bully or more likely, the little coward who stood on the side applauding the bully out of fear that if they didn't try to fit in, they'd get it next. Actually that fits you down to a T on CUK as well... whenever there's some dispute you wait to see which side you can join with to get a few sneaky kicks in without having to standup on your own.

Ah, so I am either the bully or the coward? Interesting. But I fell into the role of bully, but I am a coward.

You are a very confused individual, which probably points to the turd burgling

Liking the comment I don't stand up for myself here as well, very funny.

All these insults, all this anger, I don't know. What I do know is that I have got you spot on

As for school wrong on all counts. Came from a school in a small town, with 5 very hard older brothers, I was neither; no one ****ed with me, I ****ed with no one and it worked out well.

Loved seeing the nerds quake though, it was funny seeing them do all sorts for the bullies, pocket money, cleaning shoes, homework. Very good.

[vetran]

A bottleneck developed with more fans arriving than could enter the two cages in the middle of the Leppings Lane Stand. People who had been refused entry could not leave the area because of the crush behind them but remained as an obstruction. The fans outside could hear the cheering from inside as the teams came on the pitch ten minutes before the match started, and again as the match kicked off, but could not get in; the start was not delayed while the fans got in. In one instance, a small gate was opened to eject one person, and twenty people got into the ground through it.[12] A side gate was also opened to ease the build-up. With an estimated 5,000 fans trying to get through the turnstiles, and increasing security concerns over crushing outside the turnstiles, the police, to avoid deaths outside the ground, opened a set of gates, intended as an exit, which did not have turnstiles (Gate C).[13] This decision allowed a rush of supporters through the gate into the stadium.

The crush
The result was that many thousands of fans entered through a narrow tunnel at the rear of the terrace and into the two already overcrowded central pens, causing a huge crush at the front of the terrace. Hundreds of people were pressed against one another and against the fencing by the weight of the crowd behind them. The people entering were unaware of the problems at the fence; police or stewards would normally have stood at the entrance to the tunnel if the central pens had reached capacity, and would otherwise have directed fans into the side pens, but on this occasion they did not, for reasons which have never been fully explained.[14] A BBC TV news report later stated that if police had posted two police horses correctly, they would have acted as breakwaters directing many fans into side pens, but on this occasion, this was not done.
For some time, the problem at the front of the pen was not noticed by any persons other than those affected as the attention of most people present was absorbed by the match, which by this time had already begun. It was not until 3:06 pm that the referee, Ray Lewis, after being advised by the police, stopped the match after many fans had begun climbing the fence onto the pitch in an effort to escape the crush. By this time, a small gate in the fencing had been forced open and some fans had escaped via this route, as others continued to climb over the fencing. While some attempted to climb the fence to escape, the police attempted to stop them getting on the pitch. Still other fans were pulled to safety by fellow fans in the West Stand directly above the Leppings Lane terrace. The intensity of the crush had broken the crush barriers on the terraces; later, holes in the perimeter fencing were found to be caused by desperate tearing by fans attempting rescue.[14]

sorry that excerpt suggests to me that a crowd determined to enter the game at any cost ignored their own and others safety to enter.

The police also appear to have performed woefully inadequately and the stadium was poorly designed and managed but as I said its very grey.

Pity really we had the tragedy at Heysel stadium as well.

[BoredBloke]

I'm a united supporter so felt I should point that out before I add my 2p

When handing out blame, obviously the vast majority of the blame has to be given to the police and the way they handled the situation, both as the events occured and when it was obvious what was going on, to the city of Sheffield and Wednesday for the poor state of the ground and signage. But you cannot excuse the Liverpool supporters of any blame. For the people to die they had to be crushed and to get crush you need a force to be applied. The force that was applied was from liverpool supporters pushing from the back. If they had tickets or not, if the signs were not right or not it does not excuse people from applying the amount of force that they did. There must have been a serious amount of pushing from the back to kill the other fans - especially when you look at how twisted out of shape the barriers were!

I can't really think of a good analogy, the closest I can come up with is that of a pile up on a motorway. If the motorway is at a dead stop and people plough into the back of it - they have to take a certain amount of blame for their actions and the consequences of them.

[EternalOptimist]

I'm a united supporter so felt I should point that out before I add my 2p

Scunthorpe, Sheffield ? what ?

[BoredBloke]

Scunthorpe, Sheffield ? what ?

There is only one united and it on the other side of the Pennines!

[d000hg]

Ah, so I am either the bully or the coward? Interesting. But I fell into the role of bully, but I am a coward.

Bullies are cowards almost by definition. Surely everyone knows that.

As for school wrong on all counts. Came from a school in a small town, with 5 very hard older brothers, I was neither; no one ****ed with me, I ****ed with no one and it worked out well.

Of course, we all believe you.

[EternalOptimist]

There is only one united and it on the other side of the Pennines!

ahh, one of those twats then

[Old Hack]

Bullies are cowards almost by definition. Surely everyone knows that.

Of course, we all believe you.

..and of course you think you believing me or not matters one iota of fcku to me.

Bullies aren't cowards, not really. You've also defined them separately in abusing me again, now conveniently, you're linking them.

You honestly aren't good at this are you.

[Old Hack]

You were either the bully or more likely, the little coward who stood on the side applauding the bully out of fear that if they didn't try to fit in, they'd get it next.

But you know they are the same.

Interesting little spot of bother you've got yourself into. I hope no one lets you near code.