Massive investment in India by IBM

[DodgyAgent]

They are also of a similar intellectual level. (Am I being unfair to brick constructions?)

The guy is confused. His views are so entrenched, so much part of what makes him tick that he will cling to them in any way that he can. Just imagine that were he to accept our argument what it would mean to him. No more the champion of the working class, no more the hero amongst his friends and family- "Cor blimey as'nt benn0 done well fer hisself?" "Still one of us though"

No more.

He is one of the beneficiaries of Thatcherism and has betrayed his class.

[DaveB]

That's Welshist that is...

Your point?

[1yearlater]

How much do these people get paid in the call centres??

[chock]

yeah we're doomed alright....

doomed to have some incomprehensible incompetent helpdesk 'analyst' unable to actually fix your problems but very good at logging the details to ensure that they get paid as their only priority.

doomed to work on projects that get canned because IBM have had some hand in it

doomed to die of laughter when IBM comes up with some revised costings that are mysteriously always a tad inflated on their initial quote effort

[DimPrawn]

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/business/5057054.stm

Mobile phone maker Motorola has announced plans to build a $100m (£53.8m) factory in India.
The US firm said work would shortly begin on the plant, near the southern Indian city of Madras (Chennai).

The move, by the world's second-biggest handset maker, follows plans by larger rival Nokia to build a $150m manufacturing site in the country.

Mobile phone use is growing rapidly in India, where about 100 million people currently own a phone handset.

"India is a vitally important market for Motorola," said Motorola's executive vice president Ron Garriques.

The company said it planned to have the Indian factory operational by next year.

[Bitbucket]

Commodity items will always be built by low wage countries , even the once low wage countries that were regarded as hot spots for industry to build factories are now competing with other countries that can make things cheeper , cant wait until China start producing their own version of Windows, or Whindohs.

It seems like there is a never ending spiral of countries getting their foot on the industrial ladder which employs their population and brings contentment by giving them a spendable income ,there are actually people happy to be speeding around in the latest model from Proton , and the only thing they have to do to make this happen is tell these industries how cheep their labour is.

Its no suprise that software which is a highly portable product becoming a commodity item , and not just for product support , manufacture of the product is also being seen as a comodity item as well

That leaves the guys and gals in higher wage countries like our developing and supporting one offs and custom products where its not viable to go abroad due to the costs involved in interfacing to that commodity environment , like someone on here has said , they will still be fronted by big companies that will want large fees , the low wage gains will not be passed on to everyone , its just the big spenders who will be discounted.

But I like that , and I am happy not to be developing or supporting some commodity item like the next release of Windows , or Oracle v 29 or to be getting involved with companies like EDS who are just trying to pass on a factory made product at a custom price.

Software is not like a washing machine , its a far more complex product and more like a suit there will always be people who want a tailor fitted one and not one off the peg.

As far as I am concerned , any company has the right to look for the cheepest way of producing their product , but I believe that there will always be a market for people in the UK to write and develop software , albeit a smaller and more finely tuned set of individuals who wont be restricted by big company mentality.

[Fungus]

Software is not like a washing machine , its a far more complex product and more like a suit there will always be people who want a tailor fitted one and not one off the peg.

As far as I am concerned , any company has the right to look for the cheepest way of producing their product , but I believe that there will always be a market for people in the UK to write and develop software , albeit a smaller and more finely tuned set of individuals who wont be restricted by big company mentality.

Which is why Indian contractors come to the UK and undercut UK ones. And if you think I am making this up, I'm not. I have first hand experience of two large UK companies in the telecoms field.

I was shocked recently when looking at permie salaries to see that £25 to £30 for C++ Windows developers is commonplace. Or at least that's what the adverts offer. That's the same as 8 years ago when I startd contracting.

[The Lone Gunman]

Which is why Indian contractors come to the UK and undercut UK ones. And if you think I am making this up, I'm not. I have first hand experience of two large UK companies in the telecoms field.

I was shocked recently when looking at permie salaries to see that £25 to £30 for C++ Windows developers is commonplace. Or at least that's what the adverts offer. That's the same as 8 years ago when I startd contracting.

8 years ago C++ was still rare. Since then every graduate and his brother has learned it so it is quite a common language these days.
Also the market has been depressed for a number of years. Investment in product development has never recovered from the millenium, the dot coms bubble and 9/11. When it does it will no longer be in the UK.
I agree that small bespoke houses will survive, but that wont employ anywhere near the numbers in the business now.

[threaded]

I agree that small bespoke houses will survive, but that wont employ anywhere near the numbers in the business now.

They won't need to either.

[Bitbucket]

Which is why Indian contractors come to the UK and undercut UK ones. And if you think I am making this up, I'm not. I have first hand experience of two large UK companies in the telecoms field.

I was shocked recently when looking at permie salaries to see that £25 to £30 for C++ Windows developers is commonplace. Or at least that's what the adverts offer. That's the same as 8 years ago when I startd contracting.

I understand what you are saying but Telecoms and Windows are both commodity items , so it does not suprise me that they both together command such a low fee.

In the tailored end of the market , cost is not an issue .

If I am a PM and I am looking to fill a position for a guy in a small team then I will be looking for some guarantees , like a personal reference from someone I trust , the impression I get from the contractor with regards to their CV , their communication skills and their technical ability. They may also have skills in other areas like finance , legal issues or mechanics.

I will not take some mumbling coding monkey that just so happens to put all the right buzz words on his badly spelt CV regardless of his nationality or his cost.