Massive investment in India by IBM

[benn0]

Actually no benn0. IBM setting up big time in India will not affect ME directly, only indirectly as it will affect you and others in the UK.

My post was to highlight again, the large corps shedding high end jobs on a large scale in western europe and the US whilst announcing relocation to economies like India.

You can draw your own long term conclusions.

In you mind benn0 this move of wealth generation, knowledge and industry to India is a good thing for us then? Would it not be better to build an economy and infrastructure in the UK that attracts this kind of future investment?

I find people like you benn0 incredulous.

Anyway, have a nice day. I haven't got time to argue with you. You can declare that a victory in your mind if it pleases you.

I'm not saying its good for me. I'm as worried as you. However I don't see what we can do about it apart from adapt to survive. I'm currently looking at a plan B myself. As usual though the right wingers on here look for any excuse to blame the government.

[The Lone Gunman]

So can one of you tell me how things would be any different under a right wing government?

Irrespective of the taxation regime in place, IBM's biggest factor in the decision to invest in India is the cost of labour.

My own role is shortly to be outsourced. They will be paying my equivalent a quarter of my rate before tax. Would any of you be willing to work at a quarter of your current rate?

It's all a question of supply and demand and the operation of the free market and I don't see how you can come on here blaming IBM for doing what they are doing - The original gripe of this thread.

I can blame IBM for doing what they are doing because it is corporate greed!
I don't imagine their prices will reduce in proportion to their costs will they? Their share holders won't be taking a smaller divvy will they!
I blame the Govt. because when I do this I get hit with a new tax called IR35 but when big blue does it Gordo says companies need to reduce costs to remain competetive in todays market place and still be attractive to investment.
Offshoring is exactly the same as low wage high divvy model.

[NoddY]

Oh and do you not think that high personal taxation leads to high labour costs?

Do you not think if taxes were much lower on the individual, the cost of labour would and peoples spending power would rise?

Although I like to give Nu-Labore a hard time as much as the next person, they cannot be held responsible for that portion of the tax burden required to finance the legacy costs of industrialisation. This means our taxes will never be lower than countries who have never industrialised.

[Fungus]

If IBM see business opportunities in India, why should they ignore them just to suit you?

It's Benny Boy the mad socialist.

Hypocrite. You slam Mrs T. for restructuring the economy, and lost mining jobs, and yet you encourage IBM and others to move jobs overseas.

Ah but miners is authentic working class types. We're dirty filthy middle classes. Spit. Long live the proletariat.

[lORD lUCAN]

I'm off too. Selling up at the peak of property prices and taking all my money away from El Gordo.

Benn0, here's some light reading for you

http://www.thisismoney.co.uk/news/ar...9&in_page_id=2

You've got the right idea Mr Prawn, get out while you still can. And for the rest of you. Due to increased taxation and poor infrastructure. The light at the end of the tunnel will now be switched off. Please ensure you leave your belongings behind you. We'll collect the best of it on the way out, El Gordy.

Just the Bristol house to sell and I'm off......Anyone want to buy in the knife capital of the World? Nah, didn't think so. Lucky i bought by the Suspension Bridge !!

[Fungus]

We could all work for less IF we didn't have the highest total tax burden in the world. Then we would see more investment IBM style, more research, more jobs, more opportunities and ultimately a better std of living.

As dodgy says, the irony is the leftie policies of tax, spend and regulate mean IBM are right to choose India for the future. In the 80's, large american mega corps were setting up in places like the UK and Ireland for the same reasons they choose India now.

But the socialist mentality benn0 cannot grasp the long term good of low taxes and foreign investment that Thatcher sought can it?

In the past we could survive manufacturing moving overseas. After all, we could move up the food chain, and produce high value goods, requiring an educated work force.

Now that sector is moving overseas.

What the feck are we gonna do now?

BTW I agree entirely with your sentiments. If Flash and Teflon continue to make our economy sclerotic, we are doomed.

[DodgyAgent]

It wouldn't have been any different under a right wing government - Unless of course everyone is prepared to work for less?

Not at all. We as a society waste 45% of our wealth by giving it to government to squander. Because the govt wastes so much of our money we then have to pay extra:

1. More Insurance against crime (not to mention all the extra insurance that we need to buy on account of Health & Safety)
2. educating our kids properly
3. Healthcare.

If we had efficient public services that were run for the benefit of the consumer and if we educated people properly people would not need to earn anything they like hey need now to earn a good standard of living. Add some of the ridiculous employment laws and other government meddling and the costs of labour in the UK would be much lower.

[DodgyAgent]

I can blame IBM for doing what they are doing because it is corporate greed!
I don't imagine their prices will reduce in proportion to their costs will they? Their share holders won't be taking a smaller divvy will they!
I blame the Govt. because when I do this I get hit with a new tax called IR35 but when big blue does it Gordo says companies need to reduce costs to remain competetive in todays market place and still be attractive to investment.
Offshoring is exactly the same as low wage high divvy model.

Oh dear oh dear LG. Dont go down the reactionary slide of accusing companies of being greedy. You and I are as guilty of greed as they are. Of course they are greedy and that greed is what sorts out inefficiencies in supply.

Companies should maximise their profits by offshoring where they can and Gordon Brown is absolutly right. The fact that he is raking in more tax from you is an entirely different matter.

[The Lone Gunman]

Oh dear oh dear LG. Dont go down the reactionary slide of accusing companies of being greedy. You and I are as guilty of greed as they are. Of course they are greedy and that greed is what sorts out inefficiencies in supply.

Companies should maximise their profits by offshoring where they can and Gordon Brown is absolutly right. The fact that he is raking in more tax from you is an entirely different matter.

You need to read a number of my posts together here Dodgy, I was responding to a question.
Business is generally driven by a thirst for profit and I dont have a problem with that. I do have a problem with the perceived global economy and the knock on effect of that "greed".
Your point about inefficiencies in supply is fair, but is covered by my point about lack of global competition in the supply chain.
I would be much more receptive to global production if I could be a global consumer. Why cant I choose Delicom instead of Telecom?
IBM gets to use Indian labour but I cant buy at Indian prices.

I know you are dedicated to a model, but right now that model is flawed.

<edit due to forgetting my response to your second point>
I dont see the difference between IBM offshoring to increase profit and me using the cheapest labour available to increase profit.
Gordo seems to be able to see it as a good thing one day and a bad thing the next.

[Hart-floot]

You've got the right idea Mr Prawn, get out while you still can. And for the rest of you. Due to increased taxation and poor infrastructure. The light at the end of the tunnel will now be switched off. Please ensure you leave your belongings behind you. We'll collect the best of it on the way out, El Gordy.

Just the Bristol house to sell and I'm off......Anyone want to buy in the knife capital of the World? Nah, didn't think so. Lucky i bought by the Suspension Bridge !!

So where are you and your money going to then??