What's a feminist?

[SimonMac]

All animals are equal, but some animals are more equal than others

WHS

[Diver]

Firstly, there's a difference between the words "same" and "equal". Of course men and women are different, the important point is that they're equal, in rights, social standing, salary etc.

I believe I related this on here several years ago, but;

I once owned a commercial diving business, I took on a woman diver (there are a few) after only a week on the job, I had the male divers complaining (Rightly) that it was unfair that she was on the same rate. She spent less time in the water, asking to be pulled out after completing less than 50% of the dive because the work was heavy and physically tiring. I had a choice, pay the men extra or her less.
I laid her off and took on another Male diver.
The argument could have been that I give her less physical/Lighter duties, but why? the lighter duties were shared out equally amongst the team, and my giving all the lighter duties to her would have resulted in the same dissention.
She threatened to take me to an industrial tribunal and I pointed out that I was quite willing to continue her employment as long as she did the same level of work as the men, or I paid her for piece work which would be approx 50% of her current rate as she was only doing 50% of the work, and that she should take note that I was saying this in front of 4 witnesses.
Never heard from her again

Had the job not been a physically demanding one, I would have had no problem with continuing her employment. She was pleasant and cheerful (until laid off) and a good technical diver.

Equality in salary should only go so far, even amongst men. Salary should be based on ability/capability, not gender.

[Zoiderman]

I believe I related this on here several years ago, but;

I once owned a commercial diving business, I took on a woman diver (there are a few) after only a week on the job, I had the male divers complaining (Rightly) that it was unfair that she was on the same rate. She spent less time in the water, asking to be pulled out after completing less than 50% of the dive because the work was heavy and physically tiring. I had a choice, pay the men extra or her less.
I laid her off and took on another Male diver.
The argument could have been that I give her less physical/Lighter duties, but why? the lighter duties were shared out equally amongst the team, and my giving all the lighter duties to her would have resulted in the same dissention.
She threatened to take me to an industrial tribunal and I pointed out that I was quite willing to continue her employment as long as she did the same level of work as the men, or I paid her for piece work which would be approx 50% of her current rate as she was only doing 50% of the work, and that she should take note that I was saying this in front of 4 witnesses.
Never heard from her again

Had the job not been a physically demanding one, I would have had no problem with continuing her employment. She was pleasant and cheerful (until laid off) and a good technical diver.

Equality in salary should only go so far, even amongst men. Salary should be based on ability/capability, not gender.

So she wasn't a mans equal then?

Ok.

Sorry, I stopped reading after...etc, etc, etc...

[doodab]

The argument for political, social, and economic equality. Does anyone disagree with that?

I disagree to the extent that there are far bigger inequalities that need to be addressed. It seems mad to accept a massive different in opportunity and outcome for those born rich or poor which is to some extent a man made situation, while fighting tooth and nail to address similar differences which are to some extent grounded in biological differences* we can't do anything about.

*I don't mean a fanny makes you less able, I mean that from an evolutionary / economic / game theoretic perspective the difference in roles between men and women has been greatly advantageous for the species as a whole and for the individuals concerned. It's only recently that total equality has been recognised as "a good thing" and it's quite possible that it's only recently that it's become "a good thing".

I would also disagree on the grounds that the devil is in the details, and some (such as I) would argue that the feminist agenda (among other factors) has resulted in social and economic changes to the extent that an average family now needs two wage earners to make ends meet and the system is geared up for women to turn their children over to childcare and return to work ASAP. There is very little support or choice for women who want to do otherwise unless they are from a relatively wealthy household. So although this might have given the feminists what they want they have played into the hands of those whose primary objective is to ensure a ready supply of cheap worker bees and there are an awful lot of men, women and children who have lost out. To what extent you can blame the state of the nation on the resulting change in the way children are raised is debatable, but personally I think there is a case to answer and the feminists have put the cart before the horse, as any "single issue" group is wont to do.

[Spacecadet]

So she wasn't a mans equal then?

Ok.

Sorry, I stopped reading after...etc, etc, etc...

I've a feeling that you aren't a womans equal when it comes to thinking either

[Diver]

So she wasn't a mans equal then?

Ok.

Sorry, I stopped reading after...etc, etc, etc...

Ah! so you have difficulty with reading as well as maths!

I'm aMAZEd

[NotAllThere]

Ah! so you have difficulty with reading as well as maths!

I'm aMAZEd

But when it comes to be unable to discriminate between genders, he's spot on.

[Zoiderman]

Ah! so you have difficulty with reading as well as maths!

I'm aMAZEd

I guess that 6 fingered welshness of yours has affected the brain. The fool confused a line, with a maze....

Seems like its done you too.

Shouldn't be surpised given how you troggs like to share your familial love around

[Zoiderman]

But when it comes to be unable to discriminate between genders, he's spot on.

So you still think that line you drew is a mathematical maze?

You Welsh?

Too funny.

[MarillionFan]

fem·i·nism/ˈfeməˌnizəm/

Noun:
The advocacy of women's rights on the grounds of political, social, and economic equality to men.


Some posters here seem to have a problem with feminists.

A feminist is someone (male or female) who believes that women are equal to men - and should have equal rights/opportunities and not be discriminated against because of gender.

The history of why we have 'feminist' rather than 'masculinist' as a common concept is that women haven't always been considered / treated as equal.

So if you're not a feminist, what are you?

Yeah, in that case I'm not a feminist.