Abu Qatada al-Filistini

[EternalOptimist]

The condescending element I talk about weighs against the assumption that Jordan as a country is barbaric. And whilst I agree hugely with what the article says the short term liberal "kindness" often creates misery for others who probably deserve more kindness.

I do not regard liberal kindness as a virtue or even a pleasant aspect of an individuals character. I regard it as extreme selfishness and would find it hard to trust (and therefore like) such a person. Do we need lefties? Do we need the balance they bring to gung ho "rider" logic? maybe, but right now we can do with less of it.

well I would send him back, no compunction.
but what I took from that article was a stern warning against partisanship. I found that very interesting

[Old Greg]

I agree it does'nt matter,

It is interesting that the condescending leftist view is that we owe these sort of people a living or protection whilst at the same time looking down at the regimes from which they come from.

I simply don't believe we should hand him over to torturers. It comes from having a moral compass but call it what you will.

[Peoplesoft bloke]

The condescending element I talk about weighs against the assumption that Jordan as a country is barbaric. ..

Winston Churchill felt that any country that tortured it's own (or other people's) citizens was barbaric so he signed up to a Europe wide convention that outlawed it. I agree with him. That isn't a condescending position, it's an expression of basic humanity, and it's enshrined in our own Common Law just as much as it is in later stuff like ECHR.

Or are you suggesting there's never been any torture in Jordan?

[AtW]

I simply don't believe we should hand him over to torturers.

Give me a tax payer funded cyanide capsule?

Or maybe offer him free small room on UK Embassy premises in Jordan? Charge rent and he can earn the money by getting a job out there

[AtW]

Winston Churchill felt that any country that tortured it's own (or other people's) citizens was barbaric

I can't remember for sure, but was it still under Churchill that kossacks were deported for Stalin's USSR to torture them?

[Peoplesoft bloke]

I can't remember for sure, but was it still under Churchill that kossacks were deported for Stalin's USSR to torture them?

As I've tried to explain to Dodgy in the past, even Tories can be hypocrites, nobody's perfect. I agree with Churchill about torture and his signing the ECHR but profoundly disagree with him on other issues.

I cited Churchill because Dodgy keeps on trying to paint Human Rights as a left/right issue, and as usual, he is letting his unsophisticated dogma get in the way.

As to the deportation issue you mention, perhaps you could enlighten us a bit further if you really think it has any relevance.

[NorthWestPerm2Contr]

I simply don't believe we should hand him over to torturers. It comes from having a moral compass but call it what you will.

I know I said otherwise in my posts but that was mainly emotion speaking - I do agree with you. It is the principle that counts and while extremists are able to brain wash people, it is the principles that always win in the end. Giving rights to these evil people shows that the version of religion they preach is but an insult to real religions.

[up4it]

Is that where Extreme Programming comes from? ;-)

[AtW]

I agree with Churchill about torture and his signing the ECHR but profoundly disagree with him on other issues.

What do you disagee with Churchill (not SupremeSpod)??

[DodgyAgent]

I simply don't believe we should hand him over to torturers. It comes from having a moral compass but call it what you will.

Fair enough but why do we accept his lawyers defence so readily that Jordan will torture him?