Question for socialists, capitalists, don'tcareists and all others

[Mich the Tester]

Why does Britain still need a large private education system? Most of Europe seems to do just fine without.

[Churchill]

Why does Britain still need a large private education system? Most of Europe seems to do just fine without.

To offer the insecure middleclass something to aspire to.

[DodgyAgent]

To offer the insecure middleclass something to aspire to.

Cynical pleb

[Arturo Bassick]

Why does Britain still need a large private education system? Most of Europe seems to do just fine without.

Because the state schools in most other countries is up to the job. Certainly in Germany education is streamed and higher levels are only achievable on merit whereas in the UK any fooker can get a degree cos its only fair innit!

[Spacecadet]

Because the state schools in most other countries is up to the job. Certainly in Germany education is streamed and higher levels are only achievable on merit whereas in the UK any fooker can get a degree cos its only fair innit!

when

awarding and streaming on merit is seen as elitism in this Country

[eek]

when

awarding and streaming on merit is seen as elitism in this Country

from recent experience:-

All secondary schools stream children (they just don't explicitly claim to do so). The differences are:-

In a grammar schools the best teachers generally teach the top class.

In a comprehensive the best teachers teach those who are borderline pass / fail.

Everyone games the system to their best advantage. For grammar schools who really compete amongst themselves on Red brick university entries they focus on getting more people into Oxbridge.

For comprehensives the thing that matters is headline GCSE league table results and getting 5 more GCSE grade C swimming badges is the difference between a good and a bad year (and the head keeping his job).

[Mich the Tester]

from recent experience:-

All secondary schools stream children (they just don't explicitly claim to do so). The differences are:-

In a grammar schools the best teachers generally teach the top class.

In a comprehensive the best teachers teach those who are borderline pass / fail.

Everyone games the system to their best advantage. For grammar schools who really compete amongst themselves on Red brick university entries they focus on getting more people into Oxbridge.

For comprehensives the thing that matters is headline GCSE league table results and getting 5 more GCSE grade C swimming badges is the difference between a good and a bad year (and the head keeping his job).

I feel hard done by now. If you could have done a Swimming GCSE back in the day, I might have got a some decent grades!

[d000hg]

Why does Britain still need a large private education system? Most of Europe seems to do just fine without.

Doesn't most of Europe charge far more in taxes to fund their schools? I tried to find a useful comparison online but failed... anyone? What do our Dutch & German permie friends pay?

[Mich the Tester]

Doesn't most of Europe charge far more in taxes to fund their schools? I tried to find a useful comparison online but failed... anyone? What do our Dutch & German permie friends pay?

Ummm, permie taxes, when you factor in social contributions, tax breaks, local taxes and so on, actually work out pretty much the same all over Europe. Dutch parents pay for school books plus a nominal fee for SOME schools, but the fee isn't really enough to affect choice. The real trouble in Holland is getting kids into pre-school education, which has long waiting lists.

The school system basically works pretty well if you ask most people, but politicians will always blow up problems so as to get funding for their favourite schemes or votes from the disgruntled.

[doodab]

Doesn't most of Europe charge far more in taxes to fund their schools? I tried to find a useful comparison online but failed... anyone? What do our Dutch & German permie friends pay?

Total tax take as a % of GPD, 2009 (latest figures I have from OECD)

UK 34.3%
DE 37.3%
NL 38.2%

Of course not all of this is spent on education, you really need to look at education budget per school age child but finding that level of detailed information is a bit harder.