Question for socialists, capitalists, don'tcareists and all others

[darmstadt]

Actually I don't think German schools are all that much, in fact my comprehensive in England was a darn sight better at teaching me than the Gymnasium my son has recently left (currently trying to get a university place but as they have now dropped conscription or civil duties, all universities are over subscribed.) There are also various levels of high schools in Germany and depending on how clever you are, depends upon which type of high school you go to. I would suggest having a look at the results of the PISA studies to see where education is best (apparently)

[doodab]

% also doesn't mean much... if you have more cash per person to throw about. Do governments make total education spending available, and total number of enrolled students?

Maybe, but you need to track it down and I'm a bit busy.

[d000hg]

Total tax take as a % of GPD, 2009 (latest figures I have from OECD)

UK 34.3%
DE 37.3%
NL 38.2%

Of course not all of this is spent on education, you really need to look at education budget per school age child but finding that level of detailed information is a bit harder.

% also doesn't mean much... if you have more cash per person to throw about. Do governments make total education spending available, and total number of enrolled students?

[Old Greg]

Because the state schools in most other countries is up to the job. Certainly in Germany education is streamed and higher levels are only achievable on merit whereas in the UK any fooker can get a degree cos its only fair innit!

Maybe that is why their schools are up to the job.

[doodab]

Doesn't most of Europe charge far more in taxes to fund their schools? I tried to find a useful comparison online but failed... anyone? What do our Dutch & German permie friends pay?

Total tax take as a % of GPD, 2009 (latest figures I have from OECD)

UK 34.3%
DE 37.3%
NL 38.2%

Of course not all of this is spent on education, you really need to look at education budget per school age child but finding that level of detailed information is a bit harder.

[Mich the Tester]

Doesn't most of Europe charge far more in taxes to fund their schools? I tried to find a useful comparison online but failed... anyone? What do our Dutch & German permie friends pay?

Ummm, permie taxes, when you factor in social contributions, tax breaks, local taxes and so on, actually work out pretty much the same all over Europe. Dutch parents pay for school books plus a nominal fee for SOME schools, but the fee isn't really enough to affect choice. The real trouble in Holland is getting kids into pre-school education, which has long waiting lists.

The school system basically works pretty well if you ask most people, but politicians will always blow up problems so as to get funding for their favourite schemes or votes from the disgruntled.

[d000hg]

Why does Britain still need a large private education system? Most of Europe seems to do just fine without.

Doesn't most of Europe charge far more in taxes to fund their schools? I tried to find a useful comparison online but failed... anyone? What do our Dutch & German permie friends pay?

[Mich the Tester]

from recent experience:-

All secondary schools stream children (they just don't explicitly claim to do so). The differences are:-

In a grammar schools the best teachers generally teach the top class.

In a comprehensive the best teachers teach those who are borderline pass / fail.

Everyone games the system to their best advantage. For grammar schools who really compete amongst themselves on Red brick university entries they focus on getting more people into Oxbridge.

For comprehensives the thing that matters is headline GCSE league table results and getting 5 more GCSE grade C swimming badges is the difference between a good and a bad year (and the head keeping his job).

I feel hard done by now. If you could have done a Swimming GCSE back in the day, I might have got a some decent grades!

[eek]

when

awarding and streaming on merit is seen as elitism in this Country

from recent experience:-

All secondary schools stream children (they just don't explicitly claim to do so). The differences are:-

In a grammar schools the best teachers generally teach the top class.

In a comprehensive the best teachers teach those who are borderline pass / fail.

Everyone games the system to their best advantage. For grammar schools who really compete amongst themselves on Red brick university entries they focus on getting more people into Oxbridge.

For comprehensives the thing that matters is headline GCSE league table results and getting 5 more GCSE grade C swimming badges is the difference between a good and a bad year (and the head keeping his job).

[Spacecadet]

Because the state schools in most other countries is up to the job. Certainly in Germany education is streamed and higher levels are only achievable on merit whereas in the UK any fooker can get a degree cos its only fair innit!

when

awarding and streaming on merit is seen as elitism in this Country

[Arturo Bassick]

Why does Britain still need a large private education system? Most of Europe seems to do just fine without.

Because the state schools in most other countries is up to the job. Certainly in Germany education is streamed and higher levels are only achievable on merit whereas in the UK any fooker can get a degree cos its only fair innit!

[DodgyAgent]

To offer the insecure middleclass something to aspire to.

Cynical pleb

[Churchill]

Why does Britain still need a large private education system? Most of Europe seems to do just fine without.

To offer the insecure middleclass something to aspire to.

[Mich the Tester]

Why does Britain still need a large private education system? Most of Europe seems to do just fine without.