Question for socialists

[pjclarke]

This is rather missing the point, which is that the private sector clearly cannot be trusted to act in the best interest of the taxpayer, or for that matter most of their other customers.

Well quite. Pensions mis-selling scandal. Endowments mis-selling scandal. PPI mis-selling scandal. Anyone detect a pattern? And we should let these people run our schools? Really? Would it be too 'tribal' to suggest that the private sector has demonstrated that it should not be allowed anywhere near any activity that requires an understanding that there is more to running some enterprises than just short term profit? Sorry to drag morality in, but most private-sector capitalists seem to know as much about ethics as I do about Rugby Football.

[Old Greg]

Well quite. Pensions mis-selling scandal. Endowments mis-selling scandal. PPI mis-selling scandal. Anyone detect a pattern? And we should let these people run our schools? Really? Would it be too 'tribal' to suggest that the private sector has demonstrated that it should not be allowed anywhere near any activity that requires an understanding that there is more to running some enterprises than just short term profit? Sorry to drag morality in, but most private-sector capitalists seem to know as much about ethics as I do about Rugby Football.

What do you mean by why should 'we' let these people...? If by 'we', you mean the electorate, it has little to do with us. The state is a smoke screen for the interests of the rich an powerful. At times it is a useful tool to drop some crumbs from the table, an at others, its purpose is to transfer wealth to corporations. As we're in a time of economic contraction, it will be the latter. Like most systems, it's working as designed.

And as for ethics, the duty of the corporation is to return maximum profits to investors. This is why selling torture equipment to dictatorships is perfectly ethical. What else can they be?

[pjclarke]

Well, no, it was DodgyAgent who proposed

I am not saying that all public services should be privatised. Instead I am saying they should be run to the standards of very the best(sic) businesses and institutions.

Category error surely? Earlier we were given Virgin as an example 'a very best business'. This will be the Virgin that just bought Northern Rock in a very strange arrangement where the state get to keep the liabilities, while Branson gets the assets. A deal which cost every taxpayer £13.

Someone is struggling with the reality that expecting a 'business' to act in the interests of the taxpayer/customer, rather than those of its own stakeholders, is at odds with the basic tenets of the private sector..

[TimberWolf]

They are not doing too well now -

Tesco slump due to divine intervention, says Christian pressure group | Business | The Guardian

I've been to Tesco enough to know they are "Tesco quality" and not cheap at all. Screwing suppliers can only last so long.

I avoid shopping in Tesco as I consider it evil, and I'm not even religious.

[DodgyAgent]

I avoid shopping in Tesco as I consider it evil, and I'm not even religious.

Unlike the public sector you at least have the choice

[TimberWolf]

Unlike the public sector you at least have the choice

Saw something in the papers today about the Blairs getting into private healthcare, perhaps in conjunction with Tesco. All that evil in one place can't be healthy.

[DodgyAgent]

Well quite. Pensions mis-selling scandal. Endowments mis-selling scandal. PPI mis-selling scandal. Anyone detect a pattern? And we should let these people run our schools? Really? Would it be too 'tribal' to suggest that the private sector has demonstrated that it should not be allowed anywhere near any activity that requires an understanding that there is more to running some enterprises than just short term profit? Sorry to drag morality in, but most private-sector capitalists seem to know as much about ethics as I do about Rugby Football.

It should be the governments job to make sure businesses are held to account. In the case of many who break the law such as PPI they are having to pay them back. So why doesnt the state distribute our food? surely food is one such vital commodity that humans cannot do without?
As for profit, again we should be harnessing self interest for the good of all - that is the challenge. You are letting loose you personal prejudices and in doing so along with so many other socialists "protecting" an appalling public services sector.
Without doubt , if a government can spunk away £31 billion it would certainly mess up banking, pensions and insurance far beyond the private sectors capabilities.
Instead of chucking the emotive cliches (what's wrong with profit?) and anecdotes why not argue that the state run and deliver services in food distribution, pensions, finance. Surely the delivery of these "enterprises" are far too important for the private sector to control?

[TimberWolf]

Instead of chucking the emotive cliches (what's wrong with profit?) and anecdotes why not argue that the state run and deliver services in food distribution, pensions, finance. Surely the delivery of these "enterprises" are far too important for the private sector to control?

That was the case during the war, and some time after it?

[DodgyAgent]

Saw something in the papers today about the Blairs getting into private healthcare, perhaps in conjunction with Tesco. All that evil in one place can't be healthy.

They are pretty efficient at distributing food so why not healthcare? I do take your point however. If Tesco can deliver health services that are better and more cost effective than the current system then why not let them?

[TimberWolf]

They are pretty efficient at distributing food so why not healthcare? I do take your point however. If Tesco can deliver health services that are better and more cost effective than the current system then why not let them?

I don't know the details, depends whether they are funded by the tax payer, as they surely will only take the profitable bits.