Question for socialists

[DimPrawn]

Crikey all the lefties on CUK have crawled out of the woodwork.

Up the workers!

[DodgyAgent]

Because most people don't like the other stuff they do such as give up electricity. Because socialists aren't generally fans of religion, which is (ironically I suppose) the glue which enables the Amish society to actually work - it's because their core belief system is different that they are happy to work hard without material reward.

I'm not a socialist and I'm not suggesting Amishness (?) is the way forward, but I do think it is one example where more socialist principles have been working for centuries.

May I suggest you read a book called "animal farm"

[Old Greg]

May I suggest you read a book called "animal farm"

Is this the same Animal Farm written by a socialist who fought within the POUM faction for the Spanish government in the Spanish Civil War?

[darmstadt]

Robert Owen:

1. First, no one was responsible for his [or her] will and his [or her] own actions because his whole character is formed independently of himself; people are products of their heredity and environment, hence his support for education and labour reform, rendering him a pioneer in human capital investment.
2. Second, all religions are based on the same ridiculous imagination, that make man a weak, imbecile animal; a furious bigot and fanatic; or a miserable hypocrite;
3. Third, support for the putting-out system instead of the factory system

[LisaContractorUmbrella]

The challenge of socialism is how to sustain wealth creation and provide a genuine good quality of life for lower earners.

Socialists are trapped in a dogma that is driven by envy of the rich, and envy of people who are successful (rich or not). They are deeply insecure people who feel a need to show themselves as being caring and virtuous when they are actually nothing of the sort. Instead of emulating or bettering others they want to knock them down - hardly a panacea for helping others.

Money is power. having money means you don't have to accept poor service on anything. You do not have to accept for instance the education that is thrust upon your children, you can choose your own. Socialists hate this.

There are some real challenges out there that need addressing such as why are public services so awful and why is so much money and power in the hands of so few? The reasons are clear - public services are run for the benefit of those who work in them and administer them - not for the benefit for those who consume them. Socialists have a sense of entitlement and they spend more effort in securing this entitlement than doing what they should be doing - which is delivering services of the highest quality. Instead the socialists heap more and more protection laws on their public sector employees to keep them safe within their own incompetencies.

It should be that the quality of life for someone in a low pay job be of a high quality in terms of education for kids, healthcare and safety. It should not be necessary to earn shed loads of money except to buy "luxury goods and services".

Unfortunately the state is so utterly cruel and incompetent that so many of us devote our working lives and tax arrangements to keeping out of its clutches. The socialists call this greed - how dare they.

I very rarely feel the need (or have the courage) to venture over to General but this post has to be one of the best summations of the reasons for the decline of the UK that I have come across - well said that man

[BrilloPad]

The challenge of socialism is how to sustain wealth creation and provide a genuine good quality of life for lower earners.

Socialists are trapped in a dogma that is driven by envy of the rich, and envy of people who are successful (rich or not). They are deeply insecure people who feel a need to show themselves as being caring and virtuous when they are actually nothing of the sort. Instead of emulating or bettering others they want to knock them down - hardly a panacea for helping others.

Money is power. having money means you don't have to accept poor service on anything. You do not have to accept for instance the education that is thrust upon your children, you can choose your own. Socialists hate this.

There are some real challenges out there that need addressing such as why are public services so awful and why is so much money and power in the hands of so few? The reasons are clear - public services are run for the benefit of those who work in them and administer them - not for the benefit for those who consume them. Socialists have a sense of entitlement and they spend more effort in securing this entitlement than doing what they should be doing - which is delivering services of the highest quality. Instead the socialists heap more and more protection laws on their public sector employees to keep them safe within their own incompetencies.

It should be that the quality of life for someone in a low pay job be of a high quality in terms of education for kids, healthcare and safety. It should not be necessary to earn shed loads of money except to buy "luxury goods and services".

Unfortunately the state is so utterly cruel and incompetent that so many of us devote our working lives and tax arrangements to keeping out of its clutches. The socialists call this greed - how dare they.

Maybe socialists object to the ever widening gap between rich and poor? It seems the only time this gap is ever narrowed is during a depression. And countries with lower wealth gaps have happier people.

I think socialists might also object when it gets hard to move between rich and poor.

Although I am generally a capitalist I do object to private schools and to inheritance tax of less than 100%.

[pjclarke]

Unfortunately the state is so utterly cruel and incompetent that so many of us devote our working lives and tax arrangements to keeping out of its clutches.

Yeah, what has the state ever done for us?

Well it provided the midwife who brought you into the world.

We could have managed without .

And education. The schools and teachers that taught you to read and write so you could get a job and post on CUK. Whether they succeeded in producing the proverbial 'well-rounded individual' is a matter for others. The state provided those.

Education, goes without saying, education....

Then there's transport, city congestion is appalling, without state-subsidised trains and buses getting the workforce to its capitalist jobs, there'd be permanent gridlock. Your BMW would never leave the drive.

Yeah, but apart from education and transport, what has the state ever done for us?

Well your state GP is there for day to day minor illnesses and referrals, and if you fall seriously ill there's a local hospital. Have you seen how much BUPA charge these days?

Yeah, but apart from health, education and transport, what has the state ever done for us?

Remember the riots? When certain members of the underclass got a bit uppity and decdided to help themslelves to items of consumer-capitalist goodies they couldn't afford? I for one was glad of the state police force, without whom there'd be riots every night ....

Yeah, but apart from health, education, law and order, and transport, what has the state ever done for us?

Well, when your capitalist employer decides he can get a better return on his wealth elsewhere and shows you the door, if the worst come to the worst, the state will feed and house you until you can pursuade someone else of your moneymaking talents.

Yeah, but apart from welfare, health, education, law and order, and transport, what has the state ever done for us?

And at the end of your career the state will give you £100 a week to spend on your Top Gear box sets and Nuts magazine.

Yeah, but apart from pensions, welfare, health, education, law and order, and transport, what has the state ever done for us?

An Army, Navy and Air Force. Would you have wanted to be at the mercy of Saddam Hussein, the Taliban or Gadafi?

Yeah, but apart from defence, pensions, welfare, health, education, law and order, and transport, what has the state ever done for us?

Corporate welfare. When things went badly wrong for those uber-capitalists in financial services, the state was there to bail them out. Privatise the profits, socialise the losses. Nick Ridley was similarly critical of those dependent on 'government handouts', until he mismanaged Northern Rock into crisis and had to go cap in hand for a multi-billion pound, erm, state subsidy.

[LisaContractorUmbrella]

Yeah, what has the state ever done for us?

Well it provided the midwife who brought you into the world.

We could have managed without .

And education. The schools and teachers that taught you to read and write so you could get a job and post on CUK. Whether they succeeded in producing the proverbial 'well-rounded individual' is a matter for others. The state provided those.

Education, goes without saying, education....

Then there's transport, city congestion is appalling, without state-subsidised trains and buses getting the workforce to its capitalist jobs, there'd be permanent gridlock. Your BMW would never leave the drive.

Yeah, but apart from education and transport, what has the state done for us?

Well your state GP is there for day to day minor illnesses and referrals, and if you fall seriously ill there's a local hospital. Have you seen how much BUPA charge these days?

Yeah, but apart from health, education and transport, what has the state ever done for us?

Remember the riots? When certain members of the underclass got a bit uppity and decdided to help themslelves to items of consumer-capitalist goodies they couldn't afford? I for one was glad of the state police force, without whom there'd be riots every night ....

Yeah, but apart from health, education, law and order, and transport, what has the state ever done for us?

Well, when your capitalist employer decides he can get a better return on his wealth elsewhere and shows you the door, if the worst come to the worst, the state will feed and house you until you can pursuade someone else of your moneymaking talents.

Yeah, but apart from welfare, health, education, law and order, and transport, what has the state ever done for us?

And at the end of your career the state will give you £100 a week to spend on your Top Gear box sets and Nuts magazine.

Yeah, but apart from pensions, welfare, health, education, law and order, and transport, what has the state ever done for us?

An Army, Navy and Air Force. Would you have wanted to be at the mercy of Saddam Hussein, the Taliban or Gadafi?

Yeah, but apart from defence, pensions, welfare, health, education, law and order, and transport, what has the state ever done for us?

Corporate welfare. When things went badly wrong for those uber-capitalists in financial services, the state was there to bail them out. Privatise the profits, socialise the losses. Nick Ridley was similarly critical of those dependent on 'government handouts', until he mismanaged Northern Rock into crisis and had to go cap in hand for a multi-billion pound, erm, state subsidy.

Tax Payer

[DodgyAgent]

Because most people don't like the other stuff they do such as give up electricity. Because socialists aren't generally fans of religion, which is (ironically I suppose) the glue which enables the Amish society to actually work - it's because their core belief system is different that they are happy to work hard without material reward.

I'm not a socialist and I'm not suggesting Amishness (?) is the way forward, but I do think it is one example where more socialist principles have been working for centuries.

Well that fits with socialism which at best achieves lowest common denominator aspirations (no one has electricity)

[DodgyAgent]

Yeah, what has the state ever done for us?

Well it provided the midwife who brought you into the world. Plus the other 50 public sector employers needed to support the process

We could have managed without .

And education. The schools and teachers that taught you to read and write so you could get a job and post on CUK. Whether they succeeded in producing the proverbial 'well-rounded individual' is a matter for others. The state provided those. Yep Spot on 90% of all criminals, uneducated, unemployed welfare dependents are all educated by the state

Education, goes without saying, education....

Then there's transport, city congestion is appalling, without state-subsidised trains and buses getting the workforce to its capitalist jobs, there'd be permanent gridlock. Your BMW would never leave the drive. State held monopoly that makes us pay more than any other EU country and is often held to ransom by strikers. Another public service run primarily for the benefit of those who run and work in them

Yeah, but apart from education and transport, what has the state ever done for us?

Well your state GP is there for day to day minor illnesses and referrals, and if you fall seriously ill there's a local hospital. Have you seen how much BUPA charge these days? Just make sure you dont fall ill on a Friday/ Saturday night or at a time that doesnt suit the doctors to come out

Yeah, but apart from health, education and transport, what has the state ever done for us?

Remember the riots? When certain members of the underclass got a bit uppity and decdided to help themslelves to items of consumer-capitalist goodies they couldn't afford? I for one was glad of the state police force, without whom there'd be riots every night .... Is this the underclass that is educated, housed and fed by the state?

Yeah, but apart from health, education, law and order, and transport, what has the state ever done for us?

Well, when your capitalist employer decides he can get a better return on his wealth elsewhere and shows you the door, if the worst come to the worst, the state will feed and house you until you are fully dependent on the state and vote labour

Yeah, but apart from welfare, health, education, law and order, and transport, what has the state ever done for us?

And at the end of your career the state will give you £100 a week to spend on your Top Gear box sets and Nuts magazine. And then shoved you into an old people home to be beaten and bullied after your hard earned savings and investments have been stolen from you Old people's homes incidentally which have been hived off to private sector quasi monopolies because the state is too incompetent to run them properly themselves

Yeah, but apart from pensions, welfare, health, education, law and order, and transport, what has the state ever done for us?

An Army, Navy and Air Force. Would you have wanted to be at the mercy of Saddam Hussein, the Taliban or Gadafi? This is what we should pay our taxes for, instead we then pay twice as much by employing twice as many bureaucrats as soldiers to spend far too much money buying the wrong gear

Yeah, but apart from defence, pensions, welfare, health, education, law and order, and transport, what has the state ever done for us?

Corporate welfare. When things went badly wrong for those uber-capitalists in financial services, the state was there to bail them out. Privatise the profits, socialise the losses. Nick Ridley was similarly critical of those dependent on 'government handouts', until he mismanaged Northern Rock into crisis and had to go cap in hand for a multi-billion pound, erm, state subsidy.Thanks to the states inability to regulate and run an economy with any level of competence

Fixed all that for you.

The state is a parasite.