So was the 2nd World War all for nothing?

[AtW]

sasguru is nowhere to be seen... as usual at around 5:30pm he is buggering off home despite claiming to work at a start up

I reckon he is a bitter middle age civil servant working for FSA

[Pondlife]

FFS. At what point did I bring the holocaust into this?

My point is that people have fought to keep national independence and democracy and that it seems strange to me that we would suddenly accept German dominance for purely economic reasons.

It is your comparison between German hegemony as it would be like now (which may well be the case) and Hitler's ambition for Nazi German hegemony as intended in WW2 that I find objectionable.

It may well come to pass that succumbing to German pressure now and installing puppet technocratic leaders in democratic countries is foolish. But to compare this with what could have happened is wrong IMHO.

[AtW]

It may well come to pass that succumbing to German pressure now and installing puppet technocratic leaders in democratic countries is foolish.

Germany makes no such demands - all they ask (pretty reasonably from my point of view) is that debt is put under control with strict budget deficit levels actually enforced.

This is very reasonable on many levels and should be welcomed by voters of all countries because it would it much harder for populists like Nu Liebor to come into power and run up massive credit cards debts, then bugger off and leave it all to next Govt to deal with.

It's not unreasonable to demand that people, companies and Govts live within their means. If they want more money then they just need to earn it.

That's what pretty much 26 out of 27 EU members agreed to.

On the other side you've got Cameron who thinks he protects the City by using veto, but in reality there ain't many celebrations in the City because they know too well that without UK having a say in EU the City will be much more vulnerable.

Granted it will probably get Cameron re-elected if he calls for general election tomorrow.

[EternalOptimist]

I think what SG is on about, is that WWII was about countries keeping their independance, whereas joining a political union to prop up the Euro means losing that independance

Having said that, most of what he said was bolks.

For what its worth, that war was nothing to do with the holocaust, it was to do with Britain, then Russia, trying to maintain the world order.
Britain was in a great position, they dominated world trade, and provided the status quo was maintained on the mainland, they were laughing.
Russia needed a long period of peace so the lunatic Stalin could do whatever it was he wanted to do.
Then Schickelgruber harnessed the dissillusionemnt of the workers with the aspirations of the military with the industrial powerhouse with the ferocious Prussian fighting spirit with the new technology with the lessons learned from WWI.
And Bang. They had magnificent successes. Untill the British said No.

It was all to do with indutrialisation. Nations were like 16 year old boys who suddenly get muscles and hormones.


Whats happening now is different.

imo

[doodab]

Nations were like 16 year old boys who suddenly get muscles and hormones.


Whats happening now is different.

imo

More of a mid life crisis

[Doggy Styles]

I find it scary that politicians can just hand over their national sovereignity so easily.

It will all end in tears.

Again.

[wim121]

The 2nd World War was fought to prevent German hegemony over Europe.
But now it seems that most Europeans have become so soft they want their cossetted lives even if it means giving up freedom to the Germans.
And make no mistake the Germans will run the new organisation because he who pays the piper always call the tune.
I find it scary that politicians can just hand over their national sovereignity so easily.

A sign of intelligence on here, interesting ....

What you say isn't a new view but its good to see someone being open minded.

I suggest reading about the Frankfurt thinktank. Should be a must so people can understand issues like political correctness.

As they said, the war might be lost but the battle will be won.

[DodgyAgent]

Germany makes no such demands - all they ask (pretty reasonably from my point of view) is that debt is put under control with strict budget deficit levels actually enforced.

This is very reasonable on many levels and should be welcomed by voters of all countries because it would it much harder for populists like Nu Liebor to come into power and run up massive credit cards debts, then bugger off and leave it all to next Govt to deal with.

It's not unreasonable to demand that people, companies and Govts live within their means. If they want more money then they just need to earn it.

That's what pretty much 26 out of 27 EU members agreed to.

On the other side you've got Cameron who thinks he protects the City by using veto, but in reality there ain't many celebrations in the City because they know too well that without UK having a say in EU the City will be much more vulnerable.

Granted it will probably get Cameron re-elected if he calls for general election tomorrow.

The 26 out of 27 EU members are not agreeing any such thing. These people are screwing enterprise to buy themselves power and influence. By indulging in the Euro without putting in place proper mechanisms of support (such as a lender of last resort) they have been found out. Now that the economies of Europe are collapsing they want to find a way out that will preserve their vanity. The markets however think otherwise and so does the UK. They are all squealing about the need to keep the Euro when actually the best thing may well be to let it go.

If one was to look at the CVs of the people in charge of the EU I would guess very few understand anything about hard economics.

[DodgyAgent]

It is your comparison between German hegemony as it would be like now (which may well be the case) and Hitler's ambition for Nazi German hegemony as intended in WW2 that I find objectionable.

It may well come to pass that succumbing to German pressure now and installing puppet technocratic leaders in democratic countries is foolish. But to compare this with what could have happened is wrong IMHO.

Why on earth can you possibly think that giving way to German hegemony will not lead to a repeat of the holocaust. History is littered with regimes that have collapsed and surrendered themselves to rule by tyrants - especially when there are times of great hardship, which was when and how Hitler came to power.
We give way to German hegemony - which may be fine during the good times (on german terms of course) but without proper democratic mechanisms in place we would be asking for any outcome that may replicate what has happened in the past.
It is far better to exist as small states with democratic mechanisms in place and negotiate trade and other agreements than succumb to a huge system of control with little democratic accountability.

[Doggy Styles]

If one was to look at the CVs of the people in charge of the EU I would guess very few understand anything about hard economics.

My daughter manages her money better than the EU manages theirs. For a start she understands balancing the books and accounting for the money going in and out.