So was the 2nd World War all for nothing?

[AtW]

My point is that people have fought to keep national independence and democracy and that it seems strange to me that we would suddenly accept German dominance for purely economic reasons.

UK accepted USA dominance many many years ago, who are you to lecture other countries on accepting dominance of some other successful local country?

So far it's BMW that's top seller in UK, not Rover being top seller in Germany.

I am pretty sure if UK completely stopped buying anything made in Germany, then slight increase in demand in China would more than make up for their exports.

Perhaps UK should try to join USA as a new 51st state, at least that would make far more sense than your gibberish.

[DodgyAgent]

I know. I do not pretend to be an economic guru, although I may understand more of it than you think. However, I do have some understanding of human society, and I can see right now that all over Europe people are getting bloody angry and impatient and the free markets that supposedly make both you and me considerably wealthier than the average bod are now in great danger. They're in danger from the masses of people who feel, rightly or wrongly, that they are being screwed. You do not have to tell me about what has caused this mess; I know that this mess has been caused by governments overspending, a massive credit bubble, but also corruption on the part of some bankers and blinding incompetence on the part of ratings agencies.

I'm rather sick and tired of so called financial gurus telling the rest of the world that we're all too thick to understand. Maybe we are, with our degrees in various sciences, our inferior polytechnic education or our intellectual inferiority that sends us off to other countries to find work as IT specialists. But the fact remains that the store of all the world's wisdom that is 'the market' or indeed the intellectual powerhouses of the banking sector have turned the world's richest continent into a bloody mess.

And if the ratings agencies who are there 'to check that investments are safe' had any competence whatsoever, we wouldn't be in such a bloody mess. I see nothing, zero, zilch to even suggest that they are sorting out their ways.

It's no me you'll have to convince.

This is the exact precursor to the rise of Adolf Hitler. Too many people blaming others and voting against the Jews who like the bankers were blamed for the problems of the German economy. history repeating itself because human beings will not take responsibility and are like sheep.

[Mich the Tester]

This is the exact precursor to the rise of Adolf Hitler. Too many people blaming others and voting against the Jews who like the bankers were blamed for the problems of the German economy. history repeating itself because human beings will not take responsibility and are like sheep.

This really is a top class Godwin.

[AtW]

This is the exact precursor to the rise of Adolf Hitler. Too many people blaming others and voting against the Jews who like the bankers were blamed for the problems of the German economy. history repeating itself because human beings will not take responsibility and are like sheep.

Can you vote against bankers?!?!

Also I think it's frankly even more offensive to equate modern day bankers with Jews persecution in Nazi Germany.

[DodgyAgent]

That's the kind of rubbish those "elected" "representatives" like to spout because they want to be the ultimate rulers and don't want anybody keep them in check.

Voters are supposed to do that but with a two party system it no longer works.

If German's had their way 10 years ago then Brown (and other countries) would not be able to run up so much debt.

And if the City never was created then maybe just maybe this country would fight harder to keep real jobs in real industries here rather than outsource them to China.

Oh and all the Russian cities would have been levelled

[AtW]

Oh and all the Russian cities would have been levelled

They were levelled, far more than anything in this country.

It's old history now - the reality is that communists scum remained to run the country but in any case Germany is a big trading parther with Russia so whoever runs the country would still sell gas them. Not ideal, but at least some big exports going there earning hard currency.

Now remind me what exactly UK exports to Germany?

[DodgyAgent]

Which is really what the holocaust was all about.




You have to admit it's a pretty offensive comparison.

Of so we cannot mention the holocaust then? The holocaust should have taught us lessons about allowing a small group of people to gain power by focussing blame on another group for the ills of society. In the case of the second world war it was the Jews, just as today it is the bankers, who took the blame and look what happened. It was also the rest of the Germans who were hoodwinked sheeplike into falling for the hysteria generated by the nazis. The rest we know about.

It may seem a world apart but humans have not changed, and although the thought of the UK being ruled by the Germans with no democratic mandate or accountability may seem benign, history tells us that we will end up living once again in a totalitarian state.

[DodgyAgent]

They were levelled, far more than anything in this country.

It's old history now - the reality is that communists scum remained to run the country but in any case Germany is a big trading parther with Russia so whoever runs the country would still sell gas them. Not ideal, but at least some big exports going there earning hard currency.

Now remind me what exactly UK exports to Germany?

The UK imports from Germany so Germany will be much harder hit than the UK if trade barriers are put up. Do you really think we can become like Germans if we let them rule us? Do you really think that by surrendering our sovereignty to them we will automatically become an export nation?

[AtW]

Of so we cannot mention the holocaust then?

You certainly can.

However if you use it to support your point of view by completely detaching from reality of what actually happened in holocaust (or WW2 in general) and trying to compare it with pathetically small issue at hand, then in my view you are either uneducated person or cynical scumbag trying to exploit horrible unrelated events to your advantage because you've got good rational appropriate arguments to support your point of view.

And for that reason I am out of this thread.

[AtW]

The UK imports from Germany so Germany will be much harder hit than the UK if trade barriers are put up

Last post here - Germany exports very small %-tage of its GDP to UK, extra growth in China would more than make up for it.

Ultimately I think UK will still buy German products such as cars: BMW, Audi, Mercs - hardly replaceable by Rover, Ford and Honda: all of whom would pull out manufacturing from UK if this country is no longer part of free trade zone with EU.