Outsourcing to India

[AtW]

Really? Has patent law been abolished then?

They have the technology to build things you cretin, US patents are not valid there - at best you can close US market to some of the things they make, but then Chinese can close manufacturing base of companies who'd try that.

[sasguru]

They have the technology to build things you cretin, US patents are not valid there - at best you can close US market to some of the things they make, but then Chinese can close manufacturing base of companies who'd try that.

You're no good at this economics lark, you don't understand the first thing about it.
Why not stick to trying to get your failing company on the road again?

[AtW]

Why not stick to trying to get your failing company on the road again?

Sorry dad.

[xoggoth]

Mao's China was a valid comparison with Stalin's USSR, not today's. China's embrace of more free market principles was an essential part of their success but if you think their private sector is just a bunch of entrepreneurs doing their own thing with no state input you are seriously ignorant. I am not in favour of excessive state regulation but the free for all we currently have in the West benefits only the rich while the rest suffer.

What Atw said was correct and it is an important point. China has profited enormously from stolen western technology, maybe you should look at previous frictions between them and the US, most PCs with illegal copies of MS software for example. It is no coincidence that most of the world's counterfiet goods come from China and that 60% of counterfeiting in the UK is by Chinese illegals.

This transfer of know how is another big problem of oursourcing. If we develop aircraft, say, and outsource some of the IT work to India they don't get the whole picture but there it is enough for it to be a valuable experience that can be applied to their own aircraft industries. We save a few million on development and end up losing billions when they compete against us years earlier than they might otherwise have done.

Since you seem unable to have an argument without indulging in personal abuse I shall call it a day on this.

[sasguru]

Since you seem unable to have an argument without indulging in personal abuse I shall call it a day on this.

Ok gramps.

[AtW]

What Atw said was correct and it is an important point. China has profited enormously from stolen western technology, maybe you should look at previous frictions between them and the US

Stolen? Maybe military stuff, but civilian companies were falling over themselves to build plants there with all blue prints available to local Chinese workers, why steal when idiots not only give you the secrets, finance buildings and also train work force?

And after that they'll allow such products to be sold at cheap price to destroy their own economy.

[sasguru]

Stolen? Maybe military stuff, but civilian companies were falling over themselves to build plants there with all blue prints available to local Chinese workers, why steal when idiots not only give you the secrets, finance buildings and also train work force?

And after that they'll allow such products to be sold at cheap price to destroy their own economy.

Give me an example of this. All I'm hearing on this thread is general vague emotional ranting and no specifics

[xoggoth]

Probably a lot of that is true although I don't believe the widespread distribution of illegal PC software was down to western companies. It is part of the Chinese culture, they don't seem to think copying designs or even trademarks is any way wrong or should be illegal.

http://www.physorg.com/news/2011-05-...cy-costly.html
http://www.newlaunches.com/archives/...d_in_china.php
News Headlines

Ballmer said the world's largest software maker's revenue in China was only five percent of that in the United States, even though personal computer sales in the two countries are nearly equal, the Wall Street Journal reported.

The comments underlined the challenges faced by Western firms in protecting their copyrights in China, the largest counterfeit and piracy market in the world. The issue has long been a sticking point in Sino-US relations.

[AtW]

Give me an example of this. All I'm hearing on this thread is general vague emotional ranting and no specifics

Rare earth elements:

A 2011 report issued by the U.S. Geological Survey and U.S. Department of the Interior, “China’s Rare-Earth Industry," outlines industry trends within China and examines national policies that may guide the future of the country's production. The report notes that China’s lead in the production of rare-earth minerals has accelerated over the past two decades. In 1990, China accounted for only 27% of such minerals. In 2009, world production was 132,000 metric tons; China produced 129,000 of those tons. According to the report, recent patterns suggest that China will slow the export of such materials to the world: “Owing to the increase in domestic demand, the Government has gradually reduced the export quota during the past several years.” In 2006, China allowed 47 domestic rare-earth producers and traders and 12 Sino-foreign rare-earth producers to export. Controls have since tightened annually; by 2011, only 22 domestic rare-earth producers and traders and 9 Sino-foreign rare-earth producers were authorized. The government’s future policies will likely keep in place strict controls: “According to China’s draft rare-earth development plan, annual rare-earth production may be limited to between 130,000 and 140,000 [metric tons] during the period from 2009 to 2015. The export quota for rare-earth products may be about 35,000 [metric tons] and the Government may allow 20 domestic rare-earth producers and traders to export rare earths.”

Source: Rare earth element - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

What do you think they are getting those rare minerals, shovels? They had manpower, determination to get the job done and got technology to do it and now they hold IT industry by the balls because such rare earth materials used in most electric things.

IMHO creation of WTO is the West's economic undoing - free trade without extra tariffs only makes sense between countries that are on similar level of development (protection laws, taxation) as otherwise there will be unfair competition.

[xoggoth]

IMHO creation of WTO is the West's economic undoing - free trade without extra tariffs only makes sense between countries that are on similar level of development (protection laws, taxation) as otherwise there will be unfair competition

Indeed.