Anachronistic Embarrassment, or Cultural Display?

[EternalOptimist]

Do you also support the rights of the Loyalists in Northern Ireland to defend themselves against such action?

I support the right to bare arms, especially the women

[doodab]

I support the right to bare arms, especially the women

A shapely shoulder is a wonderful thing.

[shaunbhoy]

Don't get me wrong - I fully support the right of the Irish people to take up arms to liberate themselves from British occupation, should they decide that is the correct strategy. I just don't think the PIRA was the Irish people, or that its targeting of civilians was a justifiable tactic.

Completely with you on that one. I have a great deal of respect for those who declared Independence at Easter 1916, then holed up in prominent buildings in Dublin, undoubtedly fully aware of the fate that awaited them.
Any bombing of civilians was completely disgraceful and morally bankrupt on all fronts for me. Those who fought and died in 1916 would also have renounced such actions wholeheartedly in my opinion too. Cowardly tactics.

[shaunbhoy]

He has a habit of doing that kind of thing. He's read a few history books and goes all romantic and gushing over the auld country.

Give it up Churchill. Nobody is taking you seriously.

HTH

[Old Greg]

Do you also support the rights of the Loyalists in Northern Ireland to defend themselves against such action?

No - they are attempting to preserve the dominance of their community.

The tragedy of it is (or one of the many tragedies) is that it is a manifestation of a divide and rule tactic. If you look at the republican vs loyalist angle (ignoring for a moment the British state's role), they are fighting over scraps - which community's working class will get better access to housing, industrial jobs (when they existed) etc. A sensible analysis would see that both communities are being shafted by the rulers and owners of industry.

[Mason Boyne]

No - they are attempting to preserve the dominance of their community.

The tragedy of it is (or one of the many tragedies) is that it is a manifestation of a divide and rule tactic. If you look at the republican vs loyalist angle (ignoring for a moment the British state's role), they are fighting over scraps - which community's working class will get better access to housing, industrial jobs (when they existed) etc. A sensible analysis would see that both communities are being shafted by the rulers and owners of industry.

With respect I'm not referring to the marching and current rioting which as I'm currently in East Belfast I see first hand.

What I am referring to is your suggestion that it would be perfectly acceptable for the Nationalists to rise up and overthrow the British.

[shaunbhoy]

What I am referring to is your suggestion that it would be perfectly acceptable for the Nationalists to rise up and overthrow the British.

Give it a couple more generations and it will all be immaterial as there will be a democratic majority available to the Nationalists anyway.
The whole place was built on a dodgy foundation to begin with, and has been an unviable anomaly from day one. It came about largely due to the threats of violence promised by the Loyalist community, and has been an unfortunate haven for violence and intimidation ever since.
The sooner it becomes a part of a United Ireland the better, then the influence of the bigots on both sides can be dispersed in amongst rational mainstream attitudes.

[Mason Boyne]

Give it a couple more generations and it will all be immaterial as there will be a democratic majority available to the Nationalists anyway.
The whole place was built on a dodgy foundation to begin with, and has been an unviable anomaly from day one. It came about largely due to the threats of violence promised by the Loyalist community, and has been an unfortunate haven for violence and intimidation ever since.
The sooner it becomes a part of a United Ireland the better, then the influence of the bigots on both sides can be dispersed in amongst rational mainstream attitudes.

Ireland can't afford (re)unification and the UK can't afford to continue propping up the economy in Northern Ireland.