Anachronistic Embarrassment, or Cultural Display?

[shaunbhoy]

Britain was shaped by the wars which started from the Jacobite Wars. Killiecrankie (1689) made sure that English intentions would crush Scottish independence. Great Britain was created from the events that led on from 1690. The French harbored James after the Boyne and funded the rebellion in 1708, Louis sent 6000 troops to Scotland (they were intercepted).

You then had the risings of 1715 and 1745. Culloden was funded almost primarily through the French (some Scottish taxation). We would all be speaking French if Charlie had been aware that the French were preparing to invade and hadn't turned around at Derby.

All this was with a Hanoverian at the throne. George II was born in Germany for goodness sake, he held the British crown as well as the Duchy of Hannover. He was German, of course he was going to side with Prussia. This is a bit different from WW1.

The Duke of Cumberland's (George II's son and leader of the British at Culloden) godparents were the King and Queen of Prussia (the Queen was his paternal Aunt). If the Stuarts had won in '45 then they would not have sided with the Prussians in '56. It is simple.

That is one take on events. There are undoubtedly some elements of importance in amongst what you say.
However, to suggest that we would all be speaking French if Charlie had not turned around at Derby is fanciful to say the least.
Our Empire, as with all such ventures, was built out of a marriage of ambition, opportunity, and a longing for wealth by ambitious men across all walks of life. Political and Military alike.
National interests (as well as personal ones) would very quickly have trumped any tenuous familial connections, and has been seen to be the case in a number of similar situations.
We have never been averse to the removal of Monarchs that could not sniff the wind, and most of them have remained acutely aware of this tradition. Or at least their advisors have kept them in the loop.....before their heads ended up in one.
For the vast majority of us, it would have made little difference which side had won the Battle of the Boyne. The guys left at the top would still have pulled all the strings, and the outcome would have been largely unchanged.

[Old Greg]

The history is all very interesting, but the Boyne is a totem for an element of a community that wishes to preserve its hegemony over the local Catholic / nationalist / Irish population, and that asserts this by displaying its power through triumphalist marching.

However, they do apparently have a sense of humour. There is a story (maybe apochryphal) that in the '70's the National Front proposed an alliance with the Orange Order, and the Orange Order sent a black member to the arranged meeting to get the message across. Much as I dislike the Orange Order, I do hope that story is true.

[Incognito]

The history is all very interesting, but the Boyne is a totem for an element of a community that wishes to preserve its hegemony over the local Catholic / nationalist / Irish population, and that asserts this by displaying its power through triumphalist marching.

However, they do apparently have a sense of humour. There is a story (maybe apochryphal) that in the '70's the National Front proposed an alliance with the Orange Order, and the Orange Order sent a black member to the arranged meeting to get the message across. Much as I dislike the Orange Order, I do hope that story is true.

I believe they bring their own 'flavour' to the drums.

[Old Greg]

I believe they bring their own 'flavour' to the drums.

Is that the Ghanaian Orange Order?

[Incognito]

Is that the Ghanaian Orange Order?

Splittttttters, it's the Orange Order of Ghana.

[cailin maith]

I believe they bring their own 'flavour' to the drums.

Holy mother of God!!

Ah, they do look happy enough though.

[Old Greg]

Holy mother of God!!

Ah, they do look happy enough though.

That's because they've just beaten up the Irish nuns at the missionary hospital.

[Incognito]

Holy mother of God!!

Ah, they do look happy enough though.

How's this for a Lodge location then:

Dublin & Wicklow L.O.L. 1313

[cailin maith]

That's because they've just beaten up the Irish nuns at the missionary hospital.

Some of them nuns can be a bit scary, I can't say I blame them!

[cailin maith]

How's this for a Lodge location then:

Dublin & Wicklow L.O.L. 1313

Well I never, but then, there are actually a fair few prods around. My home town has a massive prod Cathederal in it (actually I got married in it first time around) I suppose it's not unreasonable to think they'd have their own little clubs.

Isn't there a Catholic version anyway, Knights of Saint someone or other, I'm not too sure, I'll have to google it.