Its going to get MUCH better under the tories.

[amcdonald]

FFS

Who was to blame for the banking crisis? (I ask in earnest and in anticipation of a considered answer)

Gordmong

[Churchill]

What I meant to say was that the Tories are too left wing for me.

I always thought you were the product of a drunken tryst between Thatcher and Tebbit...

[Peoplesoft bloke]

Good point.

Well made and considerably more briefly than I managed.

[Peoplesoft bloke]

I am not a doe eyed Tory, but I happen to agree with the basic idealism of their party. .

I think that consistently arguing that people who (ever) vote for any other party are guilty hypocrites and that only one party can ever be trusted to run Britain qualifies you.

Using the "unknowable" argument is utterly ridiculous. How can you make judgements based on the unknowable?? .

I can't - I was complaining because someone else was doing it.

The only thing to go on is on what people have actually done.

As I said. The Tories have increased VAT by 2.5% twice - if you accept (and I am fairly happy to) that this time it is because Labour messed up, then the last time they did it after they had been in power for circa 10 years then that must have been because they screwed up.

You are trying to shroud the argument by saying that anyone who disagrees with you is a rabid Tory without bothering to argue the link between such a view (opposite to yours) and "being a rabid Tory". .

No I am only accusing the dogmatic advocates of 100% Tory rule at all times of that. I prefer it when we have a change from time time even thought it doesn't actually make a lot of practical difference.

You have also conveniently ignored my assertation that you are a hypocrite who has personally done extraordinarily well thanks to the policies of previous Tory governments.

For many reasons - we've done it to death already; you may think that if you say enough it will become true, but I don't. Since I don't accept the assertion that I' ve derived significant benefits from it or that even if I had I need to doff my cap and vote Tory for ever and give grateful thanks guvnor.

[Freamon]

Politicians have limited power (especially over periods of time shorter than a decade).

To say Britain could have escaped a recession and higher govt borrowing had the Labour govt been more sensible is not credible.

But to say the Labour govt didn't make it 5x worse than it needed to be is even less credible.

[vetran]

In the lying hob goblins own words

As chancellor of the exchequer until 2007, Brown pursued a policy of what he called “light-touch” business oversight and streamlined regulatory bodies, often at the urging of employer organizations such as the Confederation of British Industry.

When Labour came to power in 1997, Brown stripped the Bank of England of its role as banking supervisor and divided regulation between the central bank, the Treasury and Financial Services Authority.

The decision has been criticized by lawmakers in recent years, and the Conservatives say they will return sole responsibility for banking oversight to the Bank of England if elected.

Obviously a disreputable source like Bloomberg covering Brown's desperate pre election U-Turn may not convince people we are still looking for real evidence like stone tablets.

Brown Says He Was Wrong on Bank Regulation, 2007 Tax (Update2) - BusinessWeek

Brown relinquished control that the tories instigated, would the tories have done the same I doubt it, there was already plenty of money in the kitty when the left power. _Pensions were even making money. They would probably have continued skimming off the top unlike the New Lie who skimmed off the bottom line.

[Green Mango]

Obviously a disreputable source like Bloomberg covering Brown's desperate pre election U-Turn may not convince people we are still looking for real evidence like stone tablets.

Brown Says He Was Wrong on Bank Regulation, 2007 Tax (Update2) - BusinessWeek

Brown relinquished control that the tories instigated, would the tories have done the same I doubt it, there was already plenty of money in the kitty when the left power. _Pensions were even making money. They would probably have continued skimming off the top unlike the New Lie who skimmed off the bottom line.

Yeah, but it's not just the failure with bank oversight.

It is the huge expansion in public spending which was simply unsustainable ....

After Labour has craped on us all, they now tell us that any cut is bad and any tax raise
is unjustified ...

[Bagpuss]

Brown relinquished control that the tories instigated, would the tories have done the same I doubt it

What did they instigate? IIRC credit default swaps didn't even exist the last time they were in power so how they or the Bank of England would have controlled the growth in this new debt I'd love to know. It's all pretty moot as it's not UK socialism that started this.

American Bankers Association - SourceWatch

The ABA heavily lobbied in the 1990s to champion policies that fueled the current crisis including the repeal of the Glass-Steagall Act, which had kept risky investing separate from consumer banking. This left banks with more money for risky investments that ended up in the subprime market.
"The ABA has spent $7 million in the three quarters since the bailout to fight reforms- more than the $6.2 million they spent on lobbying in all of 2007. Along with their lobbying partners in the financial, insurance, and real estate sector, they have unleashed $321 million in lobbying in the nine months following the bailout.

[Doggy Styles]

Yeah, but it's not just the failure with bank oversight.

It is the huge expansion in public spending which was simply unsustainable ....

After Labour has craped on us all, they now tell us that any cut is bad and any tax raise is unjustified ...

and that it was a global problem that had little to do with them.

[Bagpuss]

Hang on a minute, vat is up by 2.5 points. Why are things going up by much more than this? So far noticed the following going up by much more than this.

Train fares
Gym Memberships
Food
Petrol

I thought we were all in this together? Pay restraint is being encouraged but many large organisations are using this VAT increase as an excuse to raise prices. The Government should step in now and chastise those not in this with the rest of us.

VAT change will be used to hide 8pc price rise - Telegraph