Its going to get MUCH better under the tories.

[Doggy Styles]

I'm afraid the Labour goverment messed up the balance of payments, it's as simple as that.

So now their successors have got to correct it, which logic dictates they cannot do without cutting spending and raising taxes. To complain about that now is very blinkered.

[Peoplesoft bloke]

Nonsense. The fact of the matter is that Labour frittered away billions while times were good. The Tories would not have endorsed such high levels of spending so, when the sh!t hit the fan, we'd have been better equipped to have dealt with it.

No. The "fact of the matter" is that what the Tories would have done is unknowable - it is easy to make daft claims with 20/20 hindsight, but based on their record, there's nothing to suggest that the Tories wouldn't have needed a 2.5% increase in VAT, just like they did under John Major, because of their own mess ups.

I am neither a Tory or Labour (or Lib Dem) supporter - I will vote for whoever I feel is appropraite at the time, but the blinkered sheep like mentatlity of the "I'd vote for a dead dog with a blue rosette" posters on here is breathtaking.

[DodgyAgent]

No. The "fact of the matter" is that what the Tories would have done is unknowable - it is easy to make daft claims with 20/20 hindsight, but based on their record, there's nothing to suggest that the Tories wouldn't have needed a 2.5% increase in VAT, just like they did under John Major, because of their own mess ups.

I am neither a Tory or Labour (or Lib Dem) supporter - I will vote for whoever I feel is appropraite at the time, but the blinkered sheep like mentatlity of the "I'd vote for a dead dog with a blue rosette" posters on here is breathtaking.

I am not a doe eyed Tory, but I happen to agree with the basic idealism of their party. Using the "unknowable" argument is utterly ridiculous. How can you make judgements based on the unknowable?? stop and think and try for example applying this philosophy to interviewing someone. "Had things been different I would'nt have f*cked up" is no basis upon which to judge people either individually or collectively. had Liverpool been faced with teams that only turned up with one player then no doubt they would have won the premiership last year.

The only thing to go on is on what people have actually done. If they have done those things well then there is a good chance that they can do well in the future. The Tories didnt make a mess of the economy - labour did - not once but twice in my memory. Yet people still go ahead and vote for labour goodness - knows why.

You are trying to shroud the argument by saying that anyone who disagrees with you is a rabid Tory without bothering to argue the link between such a view (opposite to yours) and "being a rabid Tory".
You have also conveniently ignored my assertation that you are a hypocrite who has personally done extraordinarily well thanks to the policies of previous Tory governments.

[Peoplesoft bloke]

So you contractors (and we agents) did not prosper under the Tories then? How did John major "wreck the economy" exactly? The thing I remember about the last years of the Tories leading up to 1997 was the vast amounts of money being paid to contractors by the likes of London electricity. And whilst we are at it, who opened the floodgates to immigration? and when did off shoring take hold of IT?

It is all very well criticising Thatcher for freeing up the banking system, I suppose their mistake was to realise that it would be used as an excuse for the failure of a future labour government. I will also bet good money on you not complaing about the high wages you made during the nineties.

FFS

In order -

1. I never said some people didn't make cash - not me as it happens since I wasn't a contractor then. The problem is that you seem to think that I should be eternally grateful without taking into account other things that that government did, or recognising that times change, and to continually vote Tory on the basis of a few good years 20 years ago (which I didn't get anyway) isn't very bright.

2.I dunno - you'd better ask him why he felt he had put up VAT by 2.5% depsite there having been a brilliant Tory miracle government in power for so long at that time - perhaps you could ask why we had airport departure tax and insurance premium taxes for the first time too - but if a 2.5% VAT hike now is because someone wrecked the economy, how was it not the same then?

3. Michael Howard actually, since you ask, a Tory.
4. Over the last ten years, not opposed in any way by Tories

And now a question for you -

Who was to blame for the banking crisis? (I ask in earnest and in anticipation of a considered answer)

I notice we haven't returned to your "guilt" speech and for that I thank you.

[DodgyAgent]

FFS

In order -

1. I never said some people didn't make cash - not me as it happens since I wasn't a contractor then. The problem is that you seem to think that I should be eternally grateful without taking into account other things that that government did, or recognising that times change, and to continually vote Tory on the basis of a few good years 20 years ago (which I didn't get anyway) isn't very bright.

2.I dunno - you'd better ask him why he felt he had put up VAT by 2.5% depsite there having been a brilliant Tory miracle government in power for so long at that time - perhaps you could ask why we had airport departure tax and insurance premium taxes for the first time too - but if a 2.5% VAT hike now is because someone wrecked the economy, how was it not the same then?

3. Michael Howard actually, since you ask, a Tory.
4. Over the last ten years, not opposed in any way by Tories

And now a question for you -

Who was to blame for the banking crisis? (I ask in earnest and in anticipation of a considered answer)

I notice we haven't returned to your "guilt" speech and for that I thank you.

I will keep the guilt bit for when I get desperate!

banking crisis is an example of the worst excess of capitalism, so the fault lies with the bankers and the governments.

[minestrone]

Anyone that thinks Labour were sailing the ship in the right direction and the tories are buggering up the economy should be sectioned.

[RichardCranium]

I am not a doe eyed Tory, but

Actually, DA...

[TykeMerc]

Anyone who thinks any politician or political party is capable of doing a good job needs their head examined.

Especially in these days where a very significant number of politicians have only ever been politicians since their university days, their grasp of the real world and what it needs is tenuous at best.

[Churchill]

Anyone who thinks any politician or political party is capable of doing a good job needs their head examined.

Especially in these days where a very significant number of politicians have only ever been politicians since their university days, their grasp of the real world and what it needs is tenuous at best.

Good point.

[DodgyAgent]

Actually, DA...

What I meant to say was that the Tories are too left wing for me.