New contract, where is the notice period on MY side ?

[zathras]

So we should be able to walk out at a moment's notice too?

If you hire a plumber to do your bathroom and then expect him to leave half way= through the job - No.

If you hire an electrician to do the electrical work in your house would you expect him to leave halfway through - No.

If you hire a painter to decorate your house would you expect him to leave halfway through - No.

So why on earth do you expect to leave a job halfway through when you supply services to a business. At the very least one should find an alternative consultant.

The practical thing is that unlike being an electrician, painter or decorator it is almost impossible to accurately determine how long a job will take. Hence this thing we have with what in effect is Time & Materials.

Businesses also change policy and plans. Business is a harsh world and if one wants the nice cosy life of an employee then one should return to employment.

Not having notice in a contract does not preclude being able to leave early, one just consults with the client before doing so. If the client has more work does that mean you would turn it down? Daft business if you do.

[malvolio]

Told you so...

[tim123]

Wrong. Have you not been listening?

If you have a deliverable,

But I don't, my deliverable is, "turn up and do whatever the feck we ask you to do".

I still find it hard to believe that the majority of contractors don't have clients like this.

you are providing a service, you are most of the way to being outside IR35 already. Throw in the no notice thing that started this thread off and it's almost guranteed. However, agree to turn up , sit there smiling brightly and be told to do this today and do that tomorrow, you are providing services and I hope you are paying IR35 because you are just a temp employee like the girls on reception.

Yep, that's exactly how my client base wants me to work. I'm quite amenable to constructive suggestions as to how I should change this, but simply stating the mantra "don't work like this" leaves me out of work.

Don't think that I haven't tried to change clients working methods, I have.

FFS, a contract is a bilateral document. If you don't like it, negotiate or don't sign it.

So, you suggest that I should become a dolee then.

There's plenty of work out there.

Really. I am currently finding it next to impossible to make a sideways move into another functional area on my product skill, or a new product with my core skill (device drivers on mobiles). I can get any number of offers of more of the same, or of a step down to "build manager" (this must be the ultimate "do as you are told" job!). But if I apply for anything else I get told "you haven't got X" where X sometimes takes two days to learn.

And you really think that I'm going to get a job doing PC apps in a banking environment just because I ask. I very much doubt it.

tim

[tim123]

Got to agree with you Malvolio. Even the revenues own status manuals make it pretty clear that no Moo = not employee .

How does, being forced to see out the term of the contract equal No MOO?

Surely it is the ultimate obligation.

tim

[tim123]

Penalty clauses are unenforceable and if this ever went to court would be struck down in favour of the contractor. Its as simple as that.

Mailman

Penalty clauses are only unenforcable if they represent more than a reasonable estimate of the actual loss.

If the sum demanded IS a reasonable estimate of the loss, then the clause is fair and the sum is payable.

500 quid for someone walking out on a contract with no notice, seems to be on the low side to me.

tim

[tim123]

ok, I started this thread ... (note that I haven't signed the contract yet)....
and I conclude this ....

given that I have no notice period written into the contract on my side and the client has a 2 week notice period ...

a) If I sign the cotnract ... I cannot terminate the contract immediately and just walk away that would be in breach of contract, I have to do the contract for the whole 9 months.
...

No.

You are perfectly entitled to breach the contract. Doing so is not bad business, morally or professionally. It is a perfectly acceptable thing to do.

But, if you breach a contract, you are liable to pay the other parties unrecoverables losses. What these amount to will depend upon how easy it is for someone else to take over your work.

tim

[ratewhore]

Feck me - this is a deep and meaningful thread. Some interesting comments made, but in the real world, sometimes you can't have a verbatim IR35 friendly contract and you take what you can...

[malvolio]

How does, being forced to see out the term of the contract equal No MOO?

Surely it is the ultimate obligation.

tim

Why do I bother?

FFS, the M in MOO means Mutuality (big word, I know, look it up). If the client can do stuff with termination and you can't, there is no mutuality...

Anyway, as someone else pointed out, it's only a minor pointer - but every little helps!