New contract, where is the notice period on MY side ?

[s2budd]

Notice Period

If there is no notice period specified within a contract on my side but the end client does have a notice period then I have always taken it for granted that they do not want any notice when I leave for another contract.

Remember, It works both ways.

[ASB]

It is debatable that Immediate termination however reduces the mutual obligations sufficiently.

Quite right. I never suggested it did. However the ESM does make quite a lot of it (but buggered if I can find it). There is a specific page related to contracts where it is not possible to give notice, or get instant termination.

Of course the problem then, in an IR35 context, is actually getting those terms considered in the notional contact.

[Denny]

Notice Period! Notice Period! What are you an employee?

Reciprocal Notice periods are only a requirement in employment. As a service provider one should negotiate. As an aside I've never found the need to walk out on a client before the job has been done in 10 years of contracting.

As for needed this could be a basis for negotiation.

This sort of advice isn't much use, to be honest instead in seems like like a self-hypnosis exercise by the respondee to convince himself that he's always an 'own business.'

Any contractor who does not fall outside the criteria set out by Gordo for being an 'own business' and therefore IR35 exempt when working on site is entitled to be given a notice period and to give one in return, depending on the terms of the contract you agreed.

Even with private clients, where I often work without recruiter involvement, am paid direct after invoicing them and taxed as a self-assessed sole trader (I am not 'owner managed') I often negotiate the end of a set piece of work that was expected to last for 'x' period of time with plenty of time given on both sides to end the arrangement, should it be necessary.

Being booted out without notice on both sides, when there was a clear expectation on both sides from the outset that time would be given to get a replacement or for me to find something else, I would consider to be very unprofessional and unbusinesslike. Normally I would give at least a week to such a client, and I would hope and expect they would extend the same courtesy to me. If they can't because the work dries up or I finish it earlier than I thought I would I would certainly expect them to find me other work for another five days (which they have done in the past) or at least promise me something else by first refusal as soon as something else suitable comes up. Normally the latter happens and we're both happy.

Surely, being in business is about building relationships and trust with your clients and vica versa not about being shafted and deceived and treated like dirt. How can any business thrive and grow if resentment grows out of an experience of carrying out a piece of work? How can any business thrive if freelancers drag out a piece of work unnecessarily just to make as much out of their client as possible? Unless you are working on a fixed fee basis for whole pieces of work, irrespective of how long it takes (I never do), then you are simply being penalised for be more efficient if you are paid daily or hourly rates. I do not wish to adopt that attitude with my clients so I expect regular work in return when informal notice period arrangements can't be honoured. I have had no problems with achieving both.

[messiah]

I started this thread .. so from what I am reading I conclude .

ok, I started this thread ... (note that I haven't signed the contract yet)....
and I conclude this ....

given that I have no notice period written into the contract on my side and the client has a 2 week notice period ...

a) If I sign the cotnract ... I cannot terminate the contract immediately and just walk away that would be in breach of contract, I have to do the contract for the whole 9 months.

b) If I push for a notice period on my side in a new contract ... I may be getting into dodgy ground where this is a negative point for being caught by IR35 by the Inland Revenue ..

...

[malvolio]

Wrong, but at least you're starting to think. Now try again.

[messiah]

then tell me where I'm going wrong in my thinking .. pls

[zathras]

This sort of advice isn't much use, to be honest instead in seems like like a self-hypnosis exercise by the respondee to convince himself that he's always an 'own business.'

Any contractor who does not fall outside the criteria set out by Gordo for being an 'own business' and therefore IR35 exempt when working on site is entitled to be given a notice period and to give one in return, depending on the terms of the contract you agreed.

Even with private clients, where I often work without recruiter involvement, am paid direct after invoicing them and taxed as a self-assessed sole trader (I am not 'owner managed') I often negotiate the end of a set piece of work that was expected to last for 'x' period of time with plenty of time given on both sides to end the arrangement, should it be necessary.

Being booted out without notice on both sides, when there was a clear expectation on both sides from the outset that time would be given to get a replacement or for me to find something else, I would consider to be very unprofessional and unbusinesslike. Normally I would give at least a week to such a client, and I would hope and expect they would extend the same courtesy to me. If they can't because the work dries up or I finish it earlier than I thought I would I would certainly expect them to find me other work for another five days (which they have done in the past) or at least promise me something else by first refusal as soon as something else suitable comes up. Normally the latter happens and we're both happy.

Surely, being in business is about building relationships and trust with your clients and vica versa not about being shafted and deceived and treated like dirt. How can any business thrive and grow if resentment grows out of an experience of carrying out a piece of work? How can any business thrive if freelancers drag out a piece of work unnecessarily just to make as much out of their client as possible? Unless you are working on a fixed fee basis for whole pieces of work, irrespective of how long it takes (I never do), then you are simply being penalised for be more efficient if you are paid daily or hourly rates. I do not wish to adopt that attitude with my clients so I expect regular work in return when informal notice period arrangements can't be honoured. I have had no problems with achieving both.

The point is that it is only in employment situations is a notice period a requirement in law. While there are many laudable reasons for having it there a legal requirement is not one of them and one should not expect it.

You are there to provide a service to a client. When they no longer require it then they can stop using you. That is what business is all about.

[malvolio]

then tell me where I'm going wrong in my thinking .. pls

(a) You are providing professional services, you are not doing a job. The point of the contract is that you deliver what is says, hence you don't need a notice period. If you absolutely have to leave before completion, you should negotiate it with the agency and the client, or provide a sub, not just tell them you're off.

(b) See (a). Also, the guy fitting your new bathroom wants you to agree to let him stop work before he's finished it, providing he tells you he's doing so. Would you let him start work under those circumstances? Or take it to the guy who promises to complete the work?

As someone else said, notice periods are for permies. Contractors don't need them and shouldn't have them.

[Denny]

The point is that it is only in employment situations is a notice period a requirement in law. While there are many laudable reasons for having it there a legal requirement is not one of them and one should not expect it.

You are there to provide a service to a client. When they no longer require it then they can stop using you. That is what business is all about.

So we should be able to walk out at a moment's notice too?

[malvolio]

Really shouldn't say things like that, Denny. Some of the wallies around here might think you mean it...