New contract, where is the notice period on MY side ?

[eternalnomad]

You jest, but that is exactly what my boss (a non-IT person obviously) expects ...

My boss expects me to do whatever he thinks will progress his position in his career (which is fair enough to a certain extent)

[malvolio]

And there is the whole problem in a nutshell. You don't work for him, you're there to deliver something (which may be his career enhancement, of course). All we have to do is persuade eveyone in the loop that is the case!!

[eternalnomad]

And there is the whole problem in a nutshell. You don't work for him, you're there to deliver something (which may be his career enhancement, of course). All we have to do is persuade eveyone in the loop that is the case!!

You are 100% right malvolio - and not I dont work for him (which I am starting to make much clearer these past few frustrating days) - he is slowly getting the message.

This is the good old "Contract of service" or "Contract for services" - very difficult to define in any practical terms unless you can "bundle" or "package" specific deliverables.

As I said before, in some IT jobs (e.g. development) I think its much easier to package such deliverables.

In my line of work its basically impossible to "measure sucess" (what a wonderful HR term) as this can mean different things to different people.

[Denny]

I've just received a new 9 month contract to sign, the clients notice period to boot me out is just 2 weeks.

I cannot for the life of me see anything in writing which states the notice period that I have to give to leave the job.

The contract is ok but who knows when I may have to leave at short notice,
my question to you all if the notice period is not specified then does that mean I would be breaking my contract if I attempted to leave in 2 weeks in the middle of the contract.

Your advice please, I don't want to spend 60 quid on a solicitor for info..

I would be very wary on two counts because you might be unwittingly living in the land of 'cuckoo' without realising it.

If there is no notice period stated on your side, then that could equally apply to you not being able to give notice and must serve out the entire contract period. Non reciprocal notice periods are quite common and not necessarily stated in the contract. After all, no notice period means no notice doesn't it? A judge may not necessarily interpret that as meaning you could walk without giving the client notice. Check with the recruiter to see what they actually mean and get them to specify or alter the contract to specify in the contract what it does mean. The last thing you want is to walk and then find yourself in breach of your contract and sued by the agency for loss of fees.

The other reason is that the client may not have agreed with the agency to give two weeks notice, should I be wrong and you are not expected to give notice. Just because your own Works Schedule states that the end-client will give two weeks, that doesn't mean that they have agreed that with the agency. Each contract is evaluated on its own merits, so recruiters are not acting unlawfully if they have done this. The real significance of this point is that you lay yourself open to be terminated without notice with full agency support for stating that you have underperformed under their specific termination clauses outlining the 'termination without notice' part. No agency is going to pay you two weeks willingly without a fight if they can't recoup the money from the client.

I would clarify the first with the agency, and I would opt in to the agency regulations. It seems highly unlikely to me that the client would need to give you notice but not you. It's normally the other way round.

[threaded]

Measuring success is dead easy: do they sign the time-sheet straight 'ways with a smile, or do you have to put in in their in-tray to be returned at some indeterminate point in the future unsigned and with questions?

Who cares what the client company wants? It's whatever whoever signs the timesheets that is most important.

[malvolio]

Oh well, two answers demonstrating no knowledge of anything I've been saying. And it was so nice while it lasted...

[expat]

You may have some flak from your agents but remind them that they cannot with hold payment from you as you are protected by the agency regs (you know, the ones you didnt opt out of when the agents asked you to).

Mailman

Perhaps we shouldn't expect new contractors to know anything about these, considering that if they do as is often suggested and go away to the CUK front page and read the First Timers guide and the Tax/Legal Q&A, they won't see any mention of them.

[Fleetwood]

Who cares what the client company wants? It's whatever whoever signs the timesheets that is most important.

For once, I agree with you.

[tim123]

Well yes, I accept that scenario. But at the end of the day we all sign a contract with a set of terms and some idea of the deliverables. As you say, the hard part is getting the client and the agent to describe what they want you to do. One day, we'll crack that problem - in fact, that revolution is already starting, in a quiet way.

I get a contract that says "do whatever the client wants me to do".

I will have been on an interview, sorry customer sales presentation, at which I was told that he wanted someone to design and code X and which it was agreed that I could (and wanted) to do, but this never gets into the contract.

Even if a loose overview was included it would be a simple description of 'developer' which includes everything from high level design to system test.
And it is this, that I won't do - system test (apart from my fair share when every one is doing it).

So when I turn up on day one and the manager says "I've decided that you are the guy on the team who's going to spend the next three months writing the tests specs", I can say "no thanks, bye" And yes that has happened, and to my eternal regret, I didn't down tools and walk out.

Finally, "Do I want to pay an extra 20% in tax". Quite frankly, this one clause ain't going to make one iota of difference as to whether I will or not.

And TBH I really don't know how I can actually avoid this. As I've said before, my client base want's BoS contractors, and if you aren't prepared to be one of their BoS contractors, they will find someone else who is.

tim

[malvolio]

Finally, "Do I want to pay an extra 20% in tax". Quite frankly, this one clause ain't going to make one iota of difference as to whether I will or not.

Wrong. Have you not been listening?

If you have a deliverable, you are providing a service, you are most of the way to being outside IR35 already. Throw in the no notice thing that started this thread off and it's almost guranteed. However, agree to turn up , sit there smiling brightly and be told to do this today and do that tomorrow, you are providing services and I hope you are paying IR35 because you are just a temp employee like the girls on reception.

FFS, a contract is a bilateral document. If you don't like it, negotiate or don't sign it. There's plenty of work out there.