Split from Welcome FAQ thread - Is there a God? Discuss

[sasguru]

I think a lot of us would not object to him being locked in a dark cellar.

It's always the religious nutters who like entombing people in dark cellars. Must remind them of the inner recesses of their brains: dark, dense, not much to see.

[SupremeSpod]

FTFY.

Although, none of us are having a discussion about any religion in particular, we're discussing the idea of a god in the first place. You're the only one who seems to want to, I'm deliberately not stating my beliefs in case you poor thin-skinned folk get offended at having 'religious views forced on you'. As is normally the case in these situations, the 'reasonable' and 'logical' atheists capture the market as far as intolerance go.

Anyway, you carry on making mindless insults now, I don't want to stretch your brain especially on a Monday morning.

You may "believe" but you're still a twat.

[d000hg]

It's always the religious nutters who like entombing people in dark cellars.

No, it's just nutters. Being a nut transcends religion.

[Gibbon]

The bible never makes the claim Mary remained a virgin, to my memory. It might be RC mythology but RC has a lot of that.

Methodist as well: Perpetual virginity of Mary - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

John Wesley wrote to a Roman Catholic, as regarding what a Protestant may declare: "I believe that He was made man, joining the human nature with the divine in one person; being conceived by the singular operation of the Holy Ghost, and born of the blessed Virgin Mary, who, as well after as before she brought Him forth, continued a pure and unspotted virgin.

[doodab]

I'm sorry, I thought we were discussing science in our mini-thread... I didn't make any statement what I think. It's certainly not science to say the universe "just exists", which was the point I made from a physics background. If the universe only has one possible configuration and is entirely rational, does this mean we can find out why it can only exist in that (apparently unlikely) configuration? i.e why the gravitational force isn't 1% stronger, etc, etc, etc. Are they just magic numbers (to take a coding phrase) or do they come from somewhere?

I thought we were discussing matters of faith.

I have assumed as you appear to be defending the idea of god against the atheists that you are a believer in god. Apologies if this is not the case.

I used to describe myself as agnostic. I accepted that god was one possible explanation for the existence of the universe and humanity within it. However, as I thought about the nature of such a being I came to realize that the idea left as many open questions as I started with, and ultimately whichever way you go you end up in pretty much the same place of having to accept that something just exists without further explanation.

Now, on some level, that is the nature of faith. You either sit on the fence refusing to rule out any of the possibilities or you choose to believe one of the options. When all of the choices boil down to the same thing, i.e. believing that something can come into existence without a "prime mover", then whichever option you choose the question becomes "well, how can this be that something 'just exists?' "

One day the idea came to me that one logical explanation, in fact the only one I can think of, for something to "just exist" is because it's impossible for it not to. And so I came to believe that the universe exists because it's impossible for it not to. I don't have a "proof" except of a very circular kind but it's the cleanest, most acceptable explanation I have found, and so it's the one I have accepted for now.

As regards the exact form of the universe and the fact it gives rise to humanity, I don't see any reason why we should rule out the idea that all possible universes exist. It's also possible that our universe is singular because it's the only one that doesn't self contradict, or that there are some other as yet undiscovered rules that dictate what constitutes a workable universe and ours turns out to be the only one, or one of a finite number. All of these are speculative ideas, for sure, but until we have something that decides either way I shall go on thinking about them.

So yes, faith is fine, but for me god was one possible answer to a question, but the question was never "does god exist?". I just found things made more sense without it.

[xoggoth]

If God exists as an independent entity, who are you to say what the right course of action is

That sums up everything about why religion is a malignant force. It prevents freedom of thought, rationality or practicality. A faith based law, even it works, is bad law because it is not subject to rational challenge.

Religion contributes nothing to mankind. We don't need it for a civilised society because of our natural instincts as social animals. We recognise the benefits of a society with rules because we empathise with others and it makes us feel safe and happy. Education is all we need. Religious people have never been any better than the rest of us, most of them twist their religion to suit their instincts.

Even if god was guiding us, he seems to have neglected an important point, he failed to stop men mistaking, inventing and twisting his supposed guidance. There have been huge disputes in history and between sects of the same religion regarding what god's proper word is. Once you start asking, did god really say x, did he really mean y or z, the whole concept of religion falls apart because there in no evidence you can rely on to support your version, only faith.

[SupremeSpod]

That sums up everything about why religion is a malignant force. It prevents freedom of thought, rationality or practicality. A faith based law, even it works, is bad law because it is not subject to rational challenge.

Religion contributes nothing to mankind. We don't need it for a civilised society because of our natural instincts as social animals. We recognise the benefits of a society with rules because we empathise with others and it makes us feel safe and happy. Education is all we need. Religious people have never been any better than the rest of us, most of them twist their religion to suit their instincts.

Even if god was guiding us, he seems to have neglected an important point, he failed to stop men mistaking, inventing and twisting his supposed guidance. There have been huge disputes in history and between sects of the same religion regarding what god's proper word is. Once you start asking, did god really say x, did he really mean y or z, the whole concept of religion falls apart because there in no evidence you can rely on to support your version, only faith.

Humans are not social animals. They are competitive and without constraints (once provided by religion) will destroy each other.

[scooterscot]

That sums up everything about why religion is a malignant force. It prevents freedom of thought, rationality or practicality. A faith based law, even it works, is bad law because it is not subject to rational challenge.

WHS

A disease of the mind combined with a conflict in language through the ages.

[realityhack]

It's always the religious nutters who like entombing people in dark cellars. Must remind them of the inner recesses of their brains: dark, dense, not much to see.

You may "believe" but you're still a twat.

This is shaping up to be an interesting debate. I'd be grateful if we could keep it that way.
Regardless of how offensive you find the opposing viewpoint to be, please respect their right to have it.

[SupremeSpod]

This is shaping up to be an interesting debate. I'd be grateful if we could keep it that way.
Regardless of how offensive you find the opposing viewpoint to be, please respect their right to have it.

How grateful?