• Visitors can check out the Forum FAQ by clicking this link. You have to register before you can post: click the REGISTER link above to proceed. To start viewing messages, select the forum that you want to visit from the selection below. View our Forum Privacy Policy.
  • Want to receive the latest contracting news and advice straight to your inbox? Sign up to the ContractorUK newsletter here. Every sign up will also be entered into a draw to WIN £100 Amazon vouchers!

Google "Phasing Out IE6 Support"

Collapse
X
  •  
  • Filter
  • Time
  • Show
Clear All
new posts

    Google "Phasing Out IE6 Support"

    Google is dropping support for IE6

    Undoubtedly there will still be places whose IT departments are so incompetent or underfunded as to be unable to ditch that unholy crock of tulip, but this a useful step to getting even big companies to realise that, if their IT department can't eradicate IE6 from the workplace, their IT department must be either full of incompetents or underfunded.

    At a conference last summer I was chatting to a guy who had just left the IE team, having worked on it since IE2 in 1994 or so, and who has also been involved in developing a number of W3C specs. He'd just moved on within MS: now that even MS realises that compliance with web standards is a requirement that affects almost all their products, they want to spread his expertise around (after having ignored his recommendations for years). He made it clear that he too now loathes IE6 despite having written substantial parts of it, primarily because although it was good in its day (which can't be denied), its day passed around 2004.

    When he went up to do his presentation, he told us that the IE team had come to him, saying that a big corporate customer wanted MS to commit to supporting IE6 until 2014. His response: "Tell them to **** off, we're not doing that!"

    A month or two later MS announced that it was extending its support period for IE6 beyond the usual ten years... to 2014.

    Given that MS itself is so much in hock to the requirements of the incompetent staff of the IT departments of its big corporate customers (you didn't really believe they cared about you did you?) that it won't even listen to the informed advice of its own staff (I'm sure what we heard was just the summary), it's good to see a powerful outside force putting the boot in, thereby bringing the necessity of eradicating IE6 as thoroughly as if it was lice on your children to wider attention

    Aside: The presentation after his, about HTML5, was by a high-profile figure in the web standards world who had spent some time providing consultancy to MS in an attempt to get it up to speed, and had therefore worked closely with {formerIEguy}. He was sat in the front row, and at one point she asked him "Hey {formerIEguy}, any idea what the IE team's plans are on implementing this?" He shouted back "Don't ask me what those bastards are up to!" - and the word "bastards" was uttered with tremendous feeling

    Thankfully, he's now in a position to tell them how to do it right, rather than having to argue with those who can't see the point of not doing it wrong.

    #2
    Oh, and before anybody comes up with the line of "Google are only doing this because they have products that compete with Microsoft": yes they do, but the main reason they're doing it is because IE6 is an utter pile of crap that is incapable of being made to work for many of the purposes to which the browser can be put. The amount of work necessary to make even a straightforward web site work correctly in IE6 once it's already working on other browsers (such as IE8) can be up to 30% of the total work required; and that's when the work is being done by people who know that foul heap of garbage inside-out (like me).

    I know a lot of webby folk who now tell clients that they charge extra for making things work on IE6. They are all still in business, and not short of clients. I don't know how much they make from the IE6 angle, but most of them report that the clients decide not to give a toss about IE6 once they understand the facts.

    IE6 has been the iron ball shackled to the ankle of the web for far too long. Thank God the damn thing will soon be eradicated.

    Of course, Microsoft could save their big corporate customers (and themselves) a lot of trouble by allowing new versions of IE to run alongside IE6. The main reason the corporates want to keep using IE6 is that they have intranet stuff that only works thereon. If they could keep IE6 for those purposes whilst having IE8 for their staff to use when on the web, everybody would be happy. Unfortunately, MS cocked up that option around 1998 and would now have to re-engineer whole chunks of Windows to get different IE versions working alongside each other reliably.

    (I'm aware of the hacks that supposedly allow one to run multiple versions of IE side-by-side for testing cross-browser. Two things: don't use them on a machine you need to work; and don't rely on the results you get for anything more complex than floating a couple of <div>s.)

    EDIT: further to that last point, I should point out that if you need to test across different IE versions but can't justify having a bunch of different machines dedicated to each browser, Microsoft offer free time-limited Virtual PC virtual machine images of Windows with the different versions of the browser installed, and Virtual PC is itself free. The current link to find these goodies is http://www.microsoft.com/downloads/d...displaylang=en

    When the time-limited VPC install expires, a new one will be available. Maximum credit to MS for providing this free service to developers
    Last edited by NickFitz; 30 January 2010, 06:52. Reason: Gotta give MS their due for some things :-)

    Comment


      #3
      I got a machine rebuild in the office the otehr week and IE6 was there.

      The problem is that 100s of millions that still use IE6 and do not have updates switched on for whatever reason.

      I'm going to guess that most of these machines that were hacked in china were running dodgy versions of IE. Microsoft would be better letting anyone download IE8 and just binning IE6 all together.

      Comment


        #4
        Originally posted by NickFitz View Post
        Undoubtedly there will still be places whose IT departments are so incompetent or underfunded as to be unable to ditch that unholy crock of tulip, but this a useful step to getting even big companies to realise that, if their IT department can't eradicate IE6 from the workplace, their IT department must be either full of incompetents or underfunded.
        This seems a tad unfair. The reason is most large companies have scores or even hundreds of intranet web applications that were written specifically for IE6 and upgrading them would be horrendously expensive. My current and last gig involved improving legacy web-apps that could only be run on IE6 and, though annoying as FF has more dev tool, I didn't blame the IT dept. The problem isn't IT departments being unwilling or incapable, but the bean-counters not being willing.

        A compromise would be to prevent IE6 from being able to access the internet but allow a second, more up-to-date browser, to venture into the great unknown.

        Comment


          #5
          Originally posted by minestrone View Post
          Microsoft would be better just binning IE all together.
          FTFY

          Firefox all the way.

          IE is slow and cumbersome. a security nightmare. but most of all it's microsoft
          Confusion is a natural state of being

          Comment


            #6
            Originally posted by NickFitz View Post

            EDIT: further to that last point, I should point out that if you need to test across different IE versions but can't justify having a bunch of different machines dedicated to each browser, Microsoft offer free time-limited Virtual PC virtual machine images of Windows with the different versions of the browser installed, and Virtual PC is itself free. The current link to find these goodies is http://www.microsoft.com/downloads/d...displaylang=en

            When the time-limited VPC install expires, a new one will be available. Maximum credit to MS for providing this free service to developers
            and if that phrase "time-limited" sounds a bit scary, presumably there's always the free, open-source VirtualBox
            Work in the public sector? Read the IR35 FAQ here

            Comment


              #7
              I have low traffic on my HAB Inc site so these figures may be misleading, but I am seeing over 18% browsers are IE 6. Top is IE 8 at nearly 45% Firefox 3.5.6 has less than 10% and IE 7 has less than 8%.

              I don't care so much about having my site work in all browsers, but in general IE 6 is still the second placed browser with 20% of the market - it's not going to be easy to just stop supporting it.
              How did this happen? Who's to blame? Well certainly there are those more responsible than others, and they will be held accountable, but again truth be told, if you're looking for the guilty, you need only look into a mirror.

              Follow me on Twitter - LinkedIn Profile - The HAB blog - New Blog: Mad Cameron
              Xeno points: +5 - Asperger rating: 36 - Paranoid Schizophrenic rating: 44%

              "We hang the petty thieves and appoint the great ones to high office" - Aesop

              Comment


                #8
                Yes, plan B still gets 22% IE6.

                Chrome gets less than 1%.

                Comment


                  #9
                  last 2 clients i have worked for both had ie6, and no signs of moving yet. roll out is too big for a 'nice to have' given that ms will support it till 2014
                  Politicians are wonderfull people, as long as they stay away from things they don't understand, like working for a living!

                  Comment


                    #10
                    Originally posted by TroubleAtMill View Post
                    This seems a tad unfair. The reason is most large companies have scores or even hundreds of intranet web applications that were written specifically for IE6 and upgrading them would be horrendously expensive. My current and last gig involved improving legacy web-apps that could only be run on IE6 and, though annoying as FF has more dev tool, I didn't blame the IT dept. The problem isn't IT departments being unwilling or incapable, but the bean-counters not being willing.
                    Sadly that's all too common and a syndrome I've seen often myself. I have no doubt that this is the reason so many corporate machines are stuck on IE6.
                    It's not like most IT departments want to keep IE6, the vast majority simply don't have a choice.
                    I've got a fair idea what it would cost my last client to upgrade various database client applications that will only run on IE6 as I costed it for two of their >250 and it was over a million each.
                    Having IE6 is also a constant pain in the knackers when you want a new app developed as the big software vendors don't want to provide IE6 support in their apps either, but again they're stuck with clients stuck with the damn thing.

                    Originally posted by TroubleAtMill View Post
                    A compromise would be to prevent IE6 from being able to access the internet but allow a second, more up-to-date browser, to venture into the great unknown.
                    Not really practical I'm afraid, we actually looked at something similar at a previous client.

                    Comment

                    Working...
                    X