A Victory for Common Sense

[AtW]

And there you kill any argument you might have in favor for this extradition.

Probable cause should be enough to extradition - after that guilt should be proven in court of law.

As far as I am concerned the guy admitted he did it, not once, twice - but many times publicly - he was not exactly under duress or under torture. Hence, his guilt (to me) is beyond question. Consequently all his attempts to avoid justice should be viewed in a light of a criminal who got caught, admitted to it but does his best to avoid punishment.

Note: I would be against extradition of people pursued for political reasons OR if country that requests them is not known for having a solid justice system: before you say USa have got one, mistakes happen in UK and USA, but overall both systems are pretty solid when it comes to serious crimes, well, in USA at least they give harsh penalties for that, in UK criminals get slap on the wrist.

[AtW]

Could it be that the Conservatives resent the notion of UK law been over-ruled by the US in such a cavalier manner

I doubt it very much.

[Not So Wise]

Probable cause should be enough to extradition - after that guilt should be proven in court of law.
...
Note: I would be against extradition of people pursued for political reasons

Except the treaty requires zero probable cause (actually zero evidence is required) and the main reason they want this guy is because he embarrassed them (like ffs it is rather embarrassing that a drunk, mildly crazy low to mid level hacker managed to hack Nasa)

If they had persued normal channels, like presenting evidence in a UK court, where the gathering was done via methods that complied with legal UK methods (aka no water boarding ) then would have no real argument against this.

But the US did not, basiclly one set of politicos said to another set "give us this guy" and the latter said "sure, do you want him gift wrapped as well?"

His guilt or innocence is pretty irrelevant as his rights (fair trial), under UK law as a UK citizen, were totally ignored

US law (or any other countrys) should not be greater than UK law/rights and legal protections for people who are in the UK (and the same in reverse, UK law should not trump the rights of someone who is in another country)

This should never change unless, in this case, the US wants to give voting rights to the people in the UK for electing the US goverment, thus giving them a voice in the formation of their laws

[AlfredJPruffock]

US law (or any other countrys) should not be greater than UK law/rights and legal protections for people who are in the UK (and the same in reverse, UK law should not trump the rights of someone who is in another country)

Excellent analysis from NSW.

And the above point is the crucial point that Atw cannot comprehend - in turn the above is a value which the Conservatives share and hence their support for McKinnon.

[RichardCranium]

And the above point is the crucial point that Atw cannot comprehend

Part of the problem is coming from an ex-Communist country. Like Eastern Europeans, SE Asians and many Africans, he is blindly pro-American. "Greatest country in the world", "can do no wrong", "whatever they do we must emulate" and so on. Completely blind that alternative values are possible and acceptable elsewhere. Which is, of course, why the USA is hated so much in those other parts of the world that resent having their values, traditions, cultures and languages discarded in the blind race to become the same as the USA.

Gary McKinnon showed the USA military up: showed them to be incompetent, insecure, and not the great perfect Sword of Justice for the World that some would like to think they are. It is for his heresy that some want to see him burned at the stake.

[BrilloPad]

This is brilliant news

[Board Game Geek]

In my mind, it boils down to this.

Should Gary be prosecuted for attempting to discover the truth or not ?

Anything else is just a smokescreen.

He didn't have official sanction, so that counts against him. However I feel his actions, although misguided, were honest.

Should we prosecute a man who seeks the truth ?

IMHO, no.

We need more Gary's, given official sanction and legitimacy, to police our overlords and if necessary, those of other countries too.

[AtW]

Except the treaty requires zero probable cause (actually zero evidence is required) and the main reason they want this guy is because he embarrassed them (like ffs it is rather embarrassing that a drunk, mildly crazy low to mid level hacker managed to hack Nasa)

The treaty might well be wrong - it should not be one sided and same rules should apply to US citizens wanted in UK, however in this particular case there is no doubt that the guy did what he is accused of, yet he is trying to wriggle out of it.

I'll have sympathy for everyone who is wanted by some country without good justice system for political reasons, say Russia for example, in this case however as soon as he admitted guilt publicly he should have been on the first plane to USA.

[AtW]

Should Gary be prosecuted for attempting to discover the truth or not ?

If he found something that was in public interest then I'd say no - he should get immunity.

He did not find jack all.

What he did (among other things) was to leave this message (right after 9/11):

""US foreign policy is akin to government-sponsored terrorism these days? It was not a mistake that there was a huge security stand-down on September 11 last year...I am SOLO. I will continue to disrupt at the highest levels.”" (Source)

Is it a message of someone who is acting in public interest trying to discover the truth? It does not look like to me.

[northernladuk]

Wonder what the feelings of all the Pro Gary people would be if the shoe was on the other foot. If someon t*t from the US hacks our kit for whatever reason you would be happy to sit there and say 'ah never mind'. If he hacks something serious you would have to say the same but would you?

Crime is a crime, why should we defend a criminal just because he is ours? If he hacked UK kit he would be a criminal, if he hacks US kit he is not. That's just not right.

Should Gary be prosecuted for attempting to discover the truth or not ?

Of course you should if his means were illegal. This is just dumb!. Using this level or morality you are condoning torture. You are attempting to get the truth and ignoring the methods in which to get it. An extreme example I grant you but you cannot cover what you do on the pretext of the truth. IF not this it will just open the door to total anarchy with no regard for the law and hide behind the 'to find truth'. Complete rubbish.