Geert Wilders in Denmark: Deporting millions of Muslims may be necessary

[Cyberman]

Now there's a phrase you don't see very often.

I should frame it and hang it on my wall !! :smug

[The Lone Gunman]

The authorities turn a blind eye to polygamous marriages but would not to a bigamous Christian marriage, so therefore we have prejudice here against Christians.

You are going to have to support that one with a linky. I have never heard that and believe me Islam is a pet study of mine.

The Sharia court is indeed voluntary, but muslim women are treated as second class citizens under Islam and therefore can suffer undue pressure to comply and thus the males get a better deal than they would through British courts. I reiterate that Sharia courts should be banned, not least to ensure equality of treatment for males and females !!

Believe it or not there are devout Muslim women who accept Islam in all its glory. No matter what we believe these women have a right to be judged according to their faith and a lot of them are devout enough to want it.
As I said I worry about whether they get a choice, but if they made it freely then it is their choice.

[xoggoth]

We all tend to believe in what we were brought up to believe in. The difference between Islam and, say, the Catholicism I was raised in, is that the latter largely confines itself to being a purveyor of moral principles as a means to salvation in the next life, it does not pervade and control peoples' lives in minute detail.

I suppose if they had family troubles, Catholics might seek general counsel from their parish priest but the idea that they would be expected or obliged to do so, let alone accept any verdict he handed down on anything, would be quite laughable.

Check out sites like Islam online, the extent to which Muslims seek advice on every tiny aspect of their lives is incredible. With a moderate site dispensing reasonable answers one could argue that it does not matter but growing radicalisation indicates that not every Muslim is seeking advice from the saner clerics.

If you have any group that owes greater allegiance to its own members than it does to others in society or to society in general and regards its own laws as superior to those of the state you have a potential problem. Couple an absolutist view of right and wrong with a tendency to seek guidance on religious interpretation rather than follow one's own sense or conscience and it is easy to see how Islamic radicals gain their followers.

[xoggoth]

Slightly off topic but according to this engineers are most likely to be Islamic radicals and right wing relgious sorts generally.

http://www.edn.com/index.asp?layout=..._id=1030020903

Right wing I can understand but religious seems a strange attribute of practical engineers. Few of the engineers or technical sorts I have known have been religious.

[Le Rosbif]

Gordon Bennet! what a thread this has become. From a brief glance there seem to be some odd attitudes.

Some seem not to appreciate that Islam is not simply a religion but a political creed that seeks to set society's laws in the here and now, not just for Muslims but for all who live in it. Yes, other religions seek to do that but none do in the formal way and to the extent that Islam does. The only theist states in the world, ie those that base the constitution on religious principles, are Islamic. Only Israel comes close.

It seems very strange that some use liberalism to defend a creed that is so profoundly illiberal on major issues, on women's rights, on homosexuality, on animal rights, on freedom to choose one's own religion (including leaving Islam), on criminality, on custody of children, on freedom of speech. Tolerance of thse who tolerate others is a fine thing, tolerance of those who do not (I say again, look at the realities of the Islamic world) is stupidity.

Were we discussing socialism or Scientology, would Le Rosbif be getting the same flack? I doubt it. This seems to be the inverted racism we see so much of whereby any viewpoint held by mostly non white people can never be criticised. Actually many of the beliefs, practices and attitudes from the third world are bloody awful, they are the ones we have spent centuries pulling our society out of. In today's inverted racism society Africans can starve or beat kids to drive out devils and the only ones blamed are our welfare workers.

One of the very worst ideas we should be glad to be shot off is the idea that laws should be based on religious belief. In the last few decades at least most Christians in Europe have started to accept that, Islam does not. We need a major Islamic presence in our society like a hole in the head.

Splendid.
Let this be an end to this thread!

[snaw]

F.O.

I like Xog, but he's got his big blinkers on when it comes to his view of Islam, though he can at least put his point across in an intelligent, coherent manner and backs his views up with something resembling evidence.

Unlike you two muppets.

[Drewster]

[Thinks]
This seems to be an interesting thread, based on the number of replies.
I haven't really got time to read them all.......
<bing> I know....
[\Thinks]

Hello chaps could anyone give me a summary?

[The Lone Gunman]

I think Xog has it pretty well right and gives informed and reasoned debate and not some ill informed inflamatory diatribe.

I think he is a bit wrong in the interpretation of these Sharia courts though.
He seems to think that these Sharia laws can be interpreted in some way as superior or alternative to British law. They are not, they just give the Islamic opinion of the situation in question. They only cover the same situations as does any other arbitration service which can be used by anybody else.

[cailin maith]

Hello chaps could anyone give me a summary?

Lots of people thinking their view is way more important than the next persons - Lots of ill & miss informed people spouting bollocks.

The odd bit of sense posted -

Lots of insults... and of course a couple of trolls.

Typical CUK

[snaw]

Really?

You amaze me.

His attitude to the peace lovers seems pretty reasonable to me and good deal more reasonable than my own.

Just my opinion.