E, them were the days

[aussielong]

Long term abuse of such drugs can mess up the control of serotonin levels. A bit like making yourself a mental diabetic

yeah but you can bounce back from that after a few years.
6 months on the SSRIs and your back to normal.

its knocks you out temporarily for the vast majority of caners

[NotAllThere]

...
The stats don't lie

...wibble...
...anti-big business
...anti-pharma
...conspiracy...

Presentation of stats does mislead, however. And as for the rest...



In Switzerland, if you want drugs, register as an addict and you can buy from the government.

Result - low drug related crime, high level of drug abuse.

btw - can anyone explain

The only reason certain drugs are illegal is because the big pharma company can't control them

given that cocaine and heroin are manufactured by big pharma, and are available on prescription?

[original PM]

it is surely costing the country more money hiring experts to advise governments only for the same government to ignore the advice than it would be if class b's were legalised.

E's are good
weed is fine
does anybody still do wizz?

you should really avoid smack and cyrstal meth

not sure about cocaine.

seriouisly anything in moderation is, fine saying that someone will start off taking a few pills and end up on 20 a night is like saying that everyone who has a pint of beer will end up a raging alcoholic

anyway must go - desperately need a fag!

[minestrone]

Stan old by sounds like you are trying to justify illicit drug use there. Comparing ecstacy with alcohol or perscription drugs is a moronic argument.

The former is not regulated and statistics on adverse effects are largely unrecorded. While the later are heavily regulated with quanitity of side effects documented.
Nobody really knows how many deaths there have been form ecstacy or how many have suffered side effects because it's never been through controlled drug trials and the assocaited side effects could easily be attributed to other causes (the taker is hardly likely to admit what they took).


From a biological perspective the biggest danger is dehydration where MDMA reacts with chemicals in the blood leading to clotting in vessels of the lungs causing death through respiratory collapse. Due to the increase in heart rate and blood pressure it is recommended that people with any heart or circulatory problems should avoid Ecstasy altogether.

Other short-term side effects of Ecstasy use include anxiety, panic attacks, paranoia, disorientation and in some cases fitting. After taking Ecstasy individuals may experience withdrawal effects that include poor concentration, mild depression and irritability in the days following their experience and many people need a long period of sleep to fully recover from its effects.


Known long term effects are:
eating disorders, persistent sleep problems, lasting feelings of fatigue and there is also an increased susceptibility to infections due to a weakened immune system. Evidence suggests that continued use may lead to permanent nerve tissue damage which may or may not be related to the memory loss, anxiety, depression and personality changes that have been reported in long-term users.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/health/1432156.stm

So if there has never been any trials done then why are you quoting a whole list of KNOW side effects. Personally I never believe anything that starts with "Evidence suggests" and contains line like "may or may not"

I have been in the company of thousands of people taking E on many hundreds of occasions and I have never seen anyone come to any harm.

I can sit outside the local police station or the local hospital tonight and see in 5 minutes more trouble than I have seen in nearly 17 years of taking Es.

[Stan.goodvibes]

Stan old by sounds like you are trying to justify illicit drug use there. Comparing ecstacy with alcohol or perscription drugs is a moronic argument.

As I said above regular abuse can mess up serotonin levels in the brain which either means further self medication with larger doses or taking anti depressants.

Bagpuss, first off I don't need to justify my illicit drug use any more than I need to justify my legal drug use (alcohol). Having a few beers with my chums at the pub is fun. Taking E and going clubbing is fun. Riding my mountain bike is fun. Of these 3 activities the beers are probably most dangerous to my long-term health, the MTBing most dangerous to my short-term health (potential broken bones), and the E is the safest. But only one of these is illegal.

Second, please show me ONE piece of peer-reviewed research proving long-term psychological damage from regular E taking. over 25% of people in the UK will take anti-depressants in their lifetime. Would you like me to show you the stats for the #millions of people who are taking valium or prozac? Or the stats for the #millions of people whose lives are ruined by alcohol?

Whats that stat about the number of glassings per day (smashing a bottle and sticking it in someones face) in the UK - was it 6? something like that. haven't heard of anyone doing that while on E.

I come across people all the time who are taking prescription anti-depressants - the Doctors hand them out like lollies to anyone who is a bit down - there is MONEY in it for them.

After blatting my brain weekend after weekend for years on E and coke I've NEVER had any long-term depression problems. In fact I will side will Steve Jobs and say that my drug-taking period was one of the best things I ever did. It was great fun and enabled me to see another side to life that I was missing.

Other short-term side effects of Ecstasy use include anxiety, panic attacks, paranoia, disorientation and in some cases fitting. After taking Ecstasy individuals may experience withdrawal effects that include poor concentration, mild depression and irritability in the days following their experience and many people need a long period of sleep to fully recover from its effects.

Sorry is that E you're taking about there? - its sounds a bit like most people after a big night at the boozer...

[Stan.goodvibes]

Presentation of stats does mislead, however. And as for the rest...

In Switzerland, if you want drugs, register as an addict and you can buy from the government.

Result - low drug related crime, high level of drug abuse.

Really? I thought backing up your points with REAL stats gave them some validity, unlike 'I heard about this guy once who took E once and went into a coma and died'.

In Holland after they legalised marijuana the average age of heroin addicts went from 23 to 33 i.e. less young people were getting hooked on heroin. The only drug problem Holland has now is with the drug tourists.

Put 2 and 2 together and come up with the right answer: Why do the countries with the strictest drug laws have the biggest drug problem?

[Stan.goodvibes]

given that cocaine and heroin are manufactured by big pharma, and are available on prescription?

Sorry? in which country is this where I can get my Doctor to prescribe me cocaine or heroin? I'd like to move there. If anyone has any luck with their local GP in the UK getting a prescription for coke, please let me know the GPs name and location...

[minestrone]

If they decided to give out charlie on prescription half a million people would be taking Monday morning off to see the doctor.

[Stan.goodvibes]

these drug threads always break down to two polarities:-

1) Those who have taken drugs and realised that they are mostly harmless and pretty well everything you hear in the media about drugs is false.

2) Those who haven't taken drugs, and trot out the same amusing but sad lines i.e.

• I once heard about this guy who took his first pill and exploded
• I read some research somewhere that said ecstacy may cause long term problems
• I don't need to take drugs to have a good time
• drugs are evil and all drug dealers should be shot

and fail to realise that alcohol is a drug, in fact THE most destructive drug in our society by a factor of about 1000% over all the other illegal drugs combined. Quote me a real story of a life messed up by drugs and I'll show you a hundred of those messed up by alcohol. Or 10 of lives ruined by addiction to prescription drugs.

If you've ever been drunk you have abused a recreactional drug, and in the process killed off about the same amount of brain cells as I did by taking one pill.

And al least clubbers as a rule don't have a really unattractive beer belly!

[NotAllThere]

Sorry? in which country is this where I can get my Doctor to prescribe me cocaine or heroin? I'd like to move there. If anyone has any luck with their local GP in the UK getting a prescription for coke, please let me know the GPs name and location...

If you're in severe pain, you may well be prescribed diamorphine, aka heroin. Cocaine also has its clinical uses. In fact, IIRC, one of the main recreational drugs that hasn't been clinically test is cannabis.

Which seems a bit dumb.

Personally, I couldn't care less whether recreational drugs that are currently illegal were made legal or not. Though I find highly amusing your stereotypical portrayal of anyone who doesn't agree with your "thinking".

I can see if drugs were legalised, that that would increase consumption, which may or may not be a bad thing. If it's a bad thing, it could be considered evolution in action if the takers don't make it to breeding age.

Part of the problem of legalising other drugs than alcohol is that it's well known what the problems of widespread alcohol use are. It isn't well known, or obvious, that, for example, legalisation of E wouldn't lead to the same or even worse consequences. ( Of course, it's obvious to you that it would make the world a better place, but you're a true believer, so not, in fact, amenable to rational argument - don't feel bad about that, most people are like you ).

btw - it's not that I heard of a guy who took one E and ended up in psychiatric care, it's that I know a guy who took one E and ended up in psychiatric care.

I'll stick to alcohol which has been well used, abused and tested in society for thousands of years.