E, them were the days

[Bagpuss]

I know one guy who developed mental illness immediately after his first E. Apparently, it can trigger schizophrenia in people who've already got low serotonin levels. While his parents were concerned and fussing and rowing over him, his younger brother developed into an alcoholic.

Long term abuse of such drugs can mess up the control of serotonin levels. A bit like making yourself a mental diabetic

[Ruprect]

Long term abuse of such drugs can mess up the control of serotonin levels. A bit like making yourself a mental diabetic

long term abuse of any drug is going to cause you issues of some form or another, whether it be liver cirosis (sp?), lung cancer, throat cancer, emphesemia etc

edit: what I'm pointing out is the hypocrisy of the "anti" argument. Weigh up the evidence of all drugs, legal and illegal then which is worse?

[BrowneIssue]

You can bet that there are long-term effects that you obviously have no idea about now. It's the same as mobile phones to me. In time I believe that long-term damage will have been done, especially to young kids that are using them.

Be very careful about copper water pipes and AC electricity too. And computers.

I am and thus I would not live under power lines or over underground power cables which have been shown statistically to cause cancer, depression and suicides.

Provided you have suncatchers hanging in the windows to capture the goodness from the sun, use rock salt lampshades to purify the electric light, have some crystals to concentrate the good energy around you, only drink bottled water, take plenty of nutritional supplements, do not let big pharma poison you with inoculations and stick to homoeopathy, you'll be fine.

I wonder if you can get homoeopathic crack cocaine?

[minestrone]

I have taken hundreds and hundreds of the things.

Some people should be forced to take them.

[Alf W]

I've never taken illicit drugs and never will. You can bet that there are long-term effects that you obviously have no idea about now. It's the same as mobile phones to me. In time I believe that long-term damage will have been done, especially to young kids that are using them. If I was a parent I would not let my kids have them.

I was angry when they recategorised cannabis to a level that virtually legalised it and I am angry about ecstacy for the same reasons.

Oh I thought we were going to get another "Heaven's Above!" from this one,

Dangerous stuff cannabis I agree. I once ate two petrol station cheeseburgers, two packets of jaffa cakes and a bag of doritos in one go after a session on the stuff. Ooh, the heartburn and aftertaste was awful!

[Stan.goodvibes]

I know one guy who developed mental illness immediately after his first E. Apparently, it can trigger schizophrenia in people who've already got low serotonin levels. While his parents were concerned and fussing and rowing over him, his younger brother developed into an alcoholic.

Waaa I love this kind of bollocks that pops up in drug threads. Nothing like a drug conversation to bring out ignorance and prejudice in a load of ill-informed people.

The stats don't lie - alcohol: 40,000 alcohol-related deaths a year, estimated cost to the NHS - 6 billion quid. E: statistically safer than horse-riding. And a hell of a lot safer than taking prescription pharmacueticals.

In fact prescription pharms kills 3 times as many people as all illegal drugs combined in the state of Florida (as in Florida - Miami Vice). The stats in the rest of the world are similar.

The only reason certain drugs are illegal is because the big pharma company can't control them (anyone can grow weed, or make meth, or grow coca) and the brewery industry lobby to keep them illegal coz they want you drinking yourself to death instead of taking (statistically much safer) drugs.

And as for the rather pathetic comments about 'oh you never know whats in a pill'... thats only because they are illegal. IF ecstasy was legal - it would be subject to strict quality control and sold by the chemist and there would be instructions on the packet and you would have to really stupid to kill yourself with it.

Drugs are not illegal because they are bad for you. Its just another lie, and other system of control, another scapegoat for failed social policy, another way of keeping the poor in their place. You think it's a coincidence that opium production has shot thru the roof in Afghanistan AFTER the Americans took it over? Why do you think the Americans can't win The War On Drugs after 20 years and 20 billion dollars a year???? because its a big lie. Ollie North was selling cocaine to fun the sandinistas in Nicuragua, the CIA have their own drug cartel. The Uk govt will be just as bad.

And yes, i did a truck load of pills and coke when I was in the UK - loved every minute of it, never lost a job, friend, girlfriend, never killed anyone, assaulted anyone, caused anyone any grief. Just had a laugh and got on with it. Oh, and I never missed a day of work either - unlike my work collegues who regularly abused a recreational drug (alcohol) and were too hungover to turn up.

But hey, why wouldn't you trust the govt to tell the truth about drugs, I mean they are so trustworthy about everything else...

[Cyberman]

The increased incidence of schizophrenia was the reason that HMG did a quick U-turn on cannabis classification.

[Bagpuss]

Stan old by sounds like you are trying to justify illicit drug use there. Comparing ecstacy with alcohol or perscription drugs is a moronic argument.

The former is not regulated and statistics on adverse effects are largely unrecorded. While the later are heavily regulated with quanitity of side effects documented.
Nobody really knows how many deaths there have been form ecstacy or how many have suffered side effects because it's never been through controlled drug trials and the assocaited side effects could easily be attributed to other causes (the taker is hardly likely to admit what they took).


From a biological perspective the biggest danger is dehydration where MDMA reacts with chemicals in the blood leading to clotting in vessels of the lungs causing death through respiratory collapse. Due to the increase in heart rate and blood pressure it is recommended that people with any heart or circulatory problems should avoid Ecstasy altogether.

Other short-term side effects of Ecstasy use include anxiety, panic attacks, paranoia, disorientation and in some cases fitting. After taking Ecstasy individuals may experience withdrawal effects that include poor concentration, mild depression and irritability in the days following their experience and many people need a long period of sleep to fully recover from its effects.


Known long term effects are:
eating disorders, persistent sleep problems, lasting feelings of fatigue and there is also an increased susceptibility to infections due to a weakened immune system. Evidence suggests that continued use may lead to permanent nerve tissue damage which may or may not be related to the memory loss, anxiety, depression and personality changes that have been reported in long-term users.

Users may become psychologically dependant on the stimulant properties of Ecstasy and regular users may develop a tolerance needing to take more of the drug to get the same effects. This increases the risk and the severity of the side effects and withdrawal symptoms, it also means the user is statistically more likely to get a ‘bad dose’.

Some users have reported feelings of confusion, anxiety and panic whilst on Ecstasy and have experienced disturbing and upsetting distortions of the senses, these bad experiences may be due to the amount of the drug that is taken and can depend on the individual’s state of mind at the time.

We will never know the true extent of the above effects on the population. I have no problem with people engaging in their own unregulated clinical trials, but to pretend you aren't going to do yourself some harm is ignoring the evidence. You probably won't die, but the increased likelihood of mental nasties is something to be aware of. As I said above regular abuse can mess up serotonin levels in the brain which either means further self medication with larger doses or taking anti depressants.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/health/1432156.stm

[Board Game Geek]

Whether there is a UK conspiracy as one poster earlier suggested (paranoia anyone ? ) or not is a moot point.

My mother worked as a psychiatric nurse, and I myself work alongside the medical profession and the aftermath of drug use (casual or long-term, legal or illegal) is not a pretty sight.

Perhaps it would be fairer to consider the ban of ALL drugs, as opposed to knee-jerk reactions on banning just some.

[aussielong]

the good outweight the bad

I've never taken illicit drugs and never will. You can bet that there are long-term effects that you obviously have no idea about now. It's the same as mobile phones to me. In time I believe that long-term damage will have been done, especially to young kids that are using them. If I was a parent I would not let my kids have them.

I was angry when they recategorised cannabis to a level that virtually legalised it and I am angry about ecstacy for the same reasons.

Don't you think the ecstasy users know its doing them harm? Of course they do. Most of them don't care.

It's better to have 10 years of massive fun than a life time of mediocrity. That is the attitude.

I've taken a load of drugs and i am noticing the damage now, in my mid-30s. I still wouldnt go back though. I work with some androids in their mid-20s who are really setting themselves up for mid-life crises.

I may not be able to remember what you showed me yesterday, and the day before, and the day before, but luckily i learned programming before the damage was done.